Colonization history of the Third Imperium

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by hal

In the end? If the First Imperium failed to colonize past their entry point from Vland into Corridor (despite Vland being their home world and the Vargr raiding the Vilani in Corridor), then it is highly unlikely that Terra, with its logistical tail being over 200 some parsecs - would have been able to do what the Vilani didn't.

Well, it might be Vilani who happened to have a Solomani emperor, the Ramshackle Imperium was still primarily Vilani. Other than that, I would point out that Solomani traders canonically reached Darrian in -1511.

[SteveS]

Here's a possible image. Suppose that as the Ziru Sirka stagnated, policies developed in some regions that people who were unhappy under Vilani stagnation were permitted to migrate outside the Ziru Sirka, under the assumption that no colony could stand up to the might of the Grand Empire of the Stars, and that the migrants were both going away so that they wouldn't cause trouble at home, and possibly settling new worlds that the Vilani could conquer later. In other words, let the dissidents do all the hard work of colonization, and then go adopt them back into the empire when they decided that they needed the trade and other advantages of the empire. Or just subjugate them if they got uppity.

They don't go far coreward because of the Vargr, so they head spinward. And later, before the Vilani get around to absorbing them, because they were busy just holding together what they had, they collapse in the face of the Terran upstarts and Terran diseases. The Rule of Man never notices that humans had expanded far outside the Ziru Sirka, and the colonies continue undisturbed through the entirety of the Ramshackle Empire, and may not even know about the Long Night because they're too busy just making a go of their new worlds.

So come the new Sylean Imperium, "colonizing" Corridor, Deneb, and the Spinward Marches isn't a matter of landing colony ships, but rather a matter of finding the long forgotten colonies, and either enticing them into the new Imperium or bringing them in by force.

So in that case, what might be special about Mora? Maybe it's already the matriarch world of a pocket empire, and the Syleans make an alliance with them, declare it a successful colonial conquest in the reports back to Sylea (or Capital, if the new name has caught on yet), and only truly absorb it into the Imperium later.

And on the matter of population growth, an annual growth rate of 2.4% increases population by a factor of ten (or one population code) per century, until constraints slow growth.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, it might be Vilani who happened to have a Solomani emperor, the Ramshackle Imperium was still primarily Vilani. Other than that, I would point out that Solomani traders canonically reached Darrian in -1511.

Thank you for that quote by the by...

While my initial thought was to point out that the Vilani were ruled by a Shadow Emperor well before the Terrans hit the scene, and were being attacked by the Vargr before the war with the Terrans, your comment about the Darians made me look more closely at the book I have published in 1987. It has this to say on page 2 of ALIEN MODULE 8 DARRIANS...


"The Solomani Period
In the Solomani Period, Darrians underwent a very dramatic change in -1521. Solomani, in fleeing the collapse of the Rule of Man, eventually reached the unsettled Spinward Marches and in that sector found Darrian, a settled world with the foundation on which they could build. The Solomani brought teh best in technology with them; the Darrians took it and improved upon it. "

Two things to note: there were worlds with human populations on them even if they weren't major, and that the entire sector was described as unsettled. per T4's POCKET EMPIRES, the Darrian's where a pre-existing settlement that benefitted from a new influx of settlers numbering 30,000 people brought in by a fleet that was comprised of 35 transports and 10 armed escorts.

So, that gives me something to work with details wise. None the less, the Itzin fleet (Turkish in historical nature) - was an atypical event. It wasn't a trading mission that would reach Darrian, trade and then return. It was an exodus of Turkish personnel who fled the collapsing Rule of Man empire. They made it as far as Vland, then left Vland - moving on through the various sectors until they reached the Sword Worlds, and from there, Darrian. That journey was a three year journey from Vland to Sacnoth, and culminated in landfall at Darrian after a fast survey of the sector.

The fact that the Darrians kept within a 20 parsec limit of their world gives me something to work with as well, although that would imply that any subsequent settlement within 20 parsecs of Darrian would be a higher tech colony than a simple world seeded by the ancients.

It is however, a start for the Spinward Marches at least. :)

[hal]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Here's a possible image. Suppose that as the Ziru Sirka stagnated, policies developed in some regions that people who were unhappy under Vilani stagnation were permitted to migrate outside the Ziru Sirka, under the assumption that no colony could stand up to the might of the Grand Empire of the Stars, and that the migrants were both going away so that they wouldn't cause trouble at home, and possibly settling new worlds that the Vilani could conquer later. In other words, let the dissidents do all the hard work of colonization, and then go adopt them back into the empire when they decided that they needed the trade and other advantages of the empire. Or just subjugate them if they got uppity.

They don't go far coreward because of the Vargr, so they head spinward. And later, before the Vilani get around to absorbing them, because they were busy just holding together what they had, they collapse in the face of the Terran upstarts and Terran diseases. The Rule of Man never notices that humans had expanded far outside the Ziru Sirka, and the colonies continue undisturbed through the entirety of the Ramshackle Empire, and may not even know about the Long Night because they're too busy just making a go of their new worlds.

So come the new Sylean Imperium, "colonizing" Corridor, Deneb, and the Spinward Marches isn't a matter of landing colony ships, but rather a matter of finding the long forgotten colonies, and either enticing them into the new Imperium or bringing them in by force.

So in that case, what might be special about Mora? Maybe it's already the matriarch world of a pocket empire, and the Syleans make an alliance with them, declare it a successful colonial conquest in the reports back to Sylea (or Capital, if the new name has caught on yet), and only truly absorb it into the Imperium later.

And on the matter of population growth, an annual growth rate of 2.4% increases population by a factor of ten (or one population code) per century, until constraints slow growth.

I like the thinking outside the box.

Unfortunately, the geography being what it is - Corridor's travel would necessitate that the Vilani have to travel through Vargr raiding grounds before they can expand spinward wise. That is why I am so puzzled at the seemingly artificial barrier drawn across the Corridor region. The Vilani had the social cohesion to battle the Vargr. They had the motive to protect their home world - which immediately borders within 25 parsecs, the raiding grounds of the Vargr.

As for an Annual population growth of 2.4%?

Based upon the fact that modern First World populations are shrinking instead of expanding (The need for 2.1 children per woman is for maintaining a zero growth population, many countries are falling below that all important 2.1 babies per woman statistic). Were it not for the influx of immigrants from countries with a higher than average babies per woman (ie 2.1), we'd see an overall shrinking of growth, not increase. The factors that affect this are economic in general, but also are based on political factors of the governments involved.

So - 2.4%? I'd tone it down for my campaigns. If you're fine with it, I see no problem, I'm just pointing out it may be a bit optimistic. <shrug>

None the less. Governments are not exactly stable. Even in the Traveller Universe, there are instances of government change as part of the adventures. For a world to remain in the same governmental category is a touch unrealistic in the span of 1100 years. England's Government - how would you classify it in strict Traveller terms? Ditto with American Government? Prior to the introduction of Social Security, we could be stated to have a given type of government. Post-Social Security, post Welfare based laws - would likely have the US heading closer to Socialism than a Representative Democracy. Things change after a short time such that the direction might change and go a whole new route. Prior to today, we'd never had a major city enter into Bankruptcy. It is not unthinkable to contemplate whole national governments hitting the bankruptcy wall. One need only look at Venezuela and do a before/after comparison of its government type to see just how quickly things can change as far as "government type". Prior to Modern History, what was the government type of China? What did it become in the early 1800's? What did it become at when Tiawan became a breakaway province?

That is why I'm working to establish the base line populations first, then determine the starports and populations etc. When I looked at the information on Corridor in Milieu zero (year zero) and contrasted it against the data from Year 1105, I found that 18% of the worlds occupied in 1105, were uninhabited in the year 0. Some worlds would see their pop value increase by 1 or 2 from zero, others would vary as much as by 7 (only one extreme case of that).

I know, it is just a fantasy construct. But it is fun to puzzle it out and try to make it work!

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by hal

None the less. Governments are not exactly stable. Even in the Traveller Universe, there are instances of government change as part of the adventures. For a world to remain in the same governmental category is a touch unrealistic in the span of 1100 years. England's Government - how would you classify it in strict Traveller terms? Ditto with American Government? Prior to the introduction of Social Security, we could be stated to have a given type of government. Post-Social Security, post Welfare based laws - would likely have the US heading closer to Socialism than a Representative Democracy. Things change after a short time such that the direction might change and go a whole new route. Prior to today, we'd never had a major city enter into Bankruptcy. It is not unthinkable to contemplate whole national governments hitting the bankruptcy wall. One need only look at Venezuela and do a before/after comparison of its government type to see just how quickly things can change as far as "government type". Prior to Modern History, what was the government type of China? What did it become in the early 1800's? What did it become at when Tiawan became a breakaway province?

That is why I'm working to establish the base line populations first, then determine the starports and populations etc. When I looked at the information on Corridor in Milieu zero (year zero) and contrasted it against the data from Year 1105, I found that 18% of the worlds occupied in 1105, were uninhabited in the year 0. Some worlds would see their pop value increase by 1 or 2 from zero, others would vary as much as by 7 (only one extreme case of that).

I know, it is just a fantasy construct. But it is fun to puzzle it out and try to make it work!

I went looking for what Traveller says about communist governments and discovered that it doesn't mention them much at all. Capitalism, socialism, communism, etc. are economic systems, or what FGU's Space Opera called it "social organization". Governments are about power and control, and while not completely unrelated, not very closely linked in the sense that you can't have a wide variation in the government types for the same economic organization.

Matt Stevens wrote some good articles on fleshing out and explaining various Traveller government types in SJG JTAS, reprinted in GURPS Traveller: The Best of JTAS.

He also wrote one more on Technocracies that didn't make the book, I am not sure if it is in the JTAS archive some people have.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

Matt Stevens wrote some good articles on fleshing out and explaining various Traveller government types in SJG JTAS, reprinted in GURPS Traveller: The Best of JTAS.

He also wrote one more on Technocracies that didn't make the book, I am not sure if it is in the JTAS archive some people have.

He recently posted revised version of the articles on Google Docs, and has graciously given permission to link them here. I'll post links, but am not sure if the forum software will let me put six in one post:

Charismatic Governments
Bureaucratic Governments
Democratic Government
Balkanized Governments
Religious Dictatorships
Feudal Technocracy

[hal]

BITS also put out a product called 101 Governments. The one set of rules that took into account government type is the Trillion Credit Squadron indicating that the tax levels were based on government type. I'm sure that others could cite other material as well. ;)

But if I had to classify many of the current Communist Regimes, there would be an element of dictatorship for some, or a oligarchy of sorts for others depending on which we're talking about. Sadly - that strays into the territory of "politics" so I'd have to stop here before it goes too much further. None the less - governments come and governments go. That's the nature of the beastie. Just curious. How would you classify the government of say, France since say, 1076 onwards? The year 2019 is about how long it would be from 904 AD onwards to today? That would encompass the same span of time that the Third Imperium reached in the year 1105 as contrasted against the year 0.

:)

[hal]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

He recently posted revised version of the articles on Google Docs, and has graciously given permission to link them here. I'll post links, but am not sure if the forum software will let me put six in one post:

Charismatic Governments
Bureaucratic Governments
Democratic Government
Balkanized Governments
Religious Dictatorships
Feudal Technocracy

Thanks for the links. I'll be sure to read them soon. :)

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by hal

Just curious. How would you classify the government of say, France since say, 1076 onwards? The year 2019 is about how long it would be from 904 AD onwards to today?

It's type 3. Self perpetuating oligarchy. Almost all governments are in the long run - occasionally there may be one oligarch who is temporarily powerful enough to claim to be a dictator and who will purge some of his senior rivals, or an election or revolution to decide which faction of oligarchs are the senior partners this year, but that's mostly façade - the totality of decision makers doesn't usually change that much, just which ones sit in which chairs or happen to be drawing an official salary this year.

[Proteus]

There's at least one canonical example of a First Imperium era colony already present in the Spinward Marches: Vanejen.

And Algine was apparently settled twice in pre-Imperial times, by Vilani around -2200 and by Solomani around -1000.

Then there’s Ruie, colonized around –2200 by Ziru Sirka refugees who died out by –1700, leaving the world to be re-colonized during the Third Imperium’s expansion into the Regina cluster.

And let’s not forget Darrian, settled by Terran traders in –1511, and the Sword Worlds, founded by Terran refugees at the comparatively late date of –399. That’s over a millennium of potential human activity in even the most spinward parts of the Marches, well before any recontact began from the resurgent Syleans.

So the Long Night sounds much busier than the name implies.