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Old 09-25-2020, 08:08 AM   #41
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Here is a question. At TL9+, why not just use a biological minifac to produce food? Each biological minifac can produce $500 worth of food per hour, which means that it can produce enough gourmet food every hour to supply the daily needs of 25 people (working 24/7, each could produce enough gourmet food per day for 600 people). While it does cost $0.5M per biological minifac, I think that it would be well worth the expense for people to dine on fresh salmon rather than fresh soy.
Because the RAW factory systems are insanely over productive to the point of absurdity. You want to divide all production by 100 or 1000 to get anything close to reasonable.

I understand why its so fast, telling the heroes their custom gear will be ready in 2 weeks is a lot less fun than having it ready after their coffee break, but it gets annoying when people mistake them for reasonable numbers instead of functionally magic.
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Last edited by Tyneras; 09-25-2020 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:52 AM   #42
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

The factory systems are not that bad actually, given their cost and the cost of labor and materials.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:30 AM   #43
Tyneras
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

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The factory systems are not that bad actually, given their cost and the cost of labor and materials.
I'm not saying you can't do it, but waste heat from manufacturing several tons of grain from raw proteins and carbs in an hour would likely produce nothing but glowing ash.

Though if you go with restaurant prices (99% service, 1% food) for the food factory output, you've already divided production by 100+
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:39 AM   #44
Anthony
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

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The factory systems are not that bad actually, given their cost and the cost of labor and materials.
The return on investment of factory systems, after account for materials, is
  • Fabricator/Robofac: 520%
  • Nanofac: 8330%
  • Replicator: var (mostly less than nanofac)
Real world durable goods return on investment is generally under 10%, unless there is some reason its lifespan would be short.

The easiest way to fix factory systems is:

Fabricator: requires component costs of 200% of the mass and cost of the good's value. May reduce this to 100% at 10x time, 50% at 100x time.
Nanofac: requires components cost of 100% of the mass and cost of the good's value. May work on raw materials at 1/1,000 rate.

This keeps them their use in adventuring without causing them to be utter nonsense economically.
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Old 09-25-2020, 06:11 PM   #45
Pectus Solentis
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

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Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
I'm not saying you can't do it, but waste heat from manufacturing several tons of grain from raw proteins and carbs in an hour would likely produce nothing but glowing ash.

Though if you go with restaurant prices (99% service, 1% food) for the food factory output, you've already divided production by 100+
Did you mean "carbs" for "carbohydrates"?
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:45 PM   #46
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

They are grown from cell stock, not manufactured. Biological growth generally produces low amounts of waste heat. Anyway, it is 100 lbs per biological minifac per hour, not tons.
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Old 09-26-2020, 01:23 AM   #47
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

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Though if you go with restaurant prices (99% service, 1% food) for the food factory output, you've already divided production by 100+
I think my chef friend once said that the materials cost for a meal should be about 20% of the restaurant price, and a quick Google gives 20%-40%.
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:29 AM   #48
Pectus Solentis
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Here is a question. At TL9+, why not just use a biological minifac to produce food? Each biological minifac can produce $500 worth of food per hour, which means that it can produce enough gourmet food every hour to supply the daily needs of 25 people (working 24/7, each could produce enough gourmet food per day for 600 people). While it does cost $0.5M per biological minifac, I think that it would be well worth the expense for people to dine on fresh salmon rather than fresh soy.
But why do you ask it in my thread? This thread is for asking questions about Open Space system. Would you start your own thread to ask it?

Last edited by Pectus Solentis; 09-26-2020 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:50 AM   #49
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

Because one of the uses of Open Spaces is food production. If you use biological minifacs for food production though, you can use Open Spaces for other purposes (or replace them with other components). Since one biological minifac at TL9 can support 600 people, they allow for more efficient spacecraft designs until up to SM+14.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:21 AM   #50
Rupert
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Questions for Open Space

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Because one of the uses of Open Spaces is food production. If you use biological minifacs for food production though, you can use Open Spaces for other purposes (or replace them with other components). Since one biological minifac at TL9 can support 600 people, they allow for more efficient spacecraft designs until up to SM+14.
At TL9 it requires stock costing 40% of the output value and of the same mass. I'm not sure how you get 600 people - it's listed output is $500/hour and spaceship rations cost $1000/ton with each ton being 500 man-days (and thus one man-day being worth $2), so a TL9 minifac can feed 250 people per hour.

However, you still need the mass for the raw stock (a minifac is not a recycling system), so you're probably better off just paying for actual food and saving the mass.

The real competition with open spaces for long-term life support is the total life-support for cabins, etc.
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