The Limits of Dual-weapon Attack?

[Celjabba]

For an extreme in multiple limbs/strikers: in DF: M4 - Dragons, Kromm note that a typical dragon has 10 natural weapons + 3 per Extra Head.
and add :
No dragon can attack with all these weapons just because it has them! It may attack once, plus once per level of Extra Attack, plus any additional attacks
from Rapid Strike or All-Out Attack (Double).

He doesn't mention DWA but I think think he would have if DWA allowed 10 (13, 16, ...) attacks !

The Kromm quote

Eveything is at -4 for using multiple hands at once. You get one master hand and everything else is at -4 for the off hand. Thus, it's -4/-8/-8/-8. Anything worse and Extra Arms wouldn't be worth 10 points/level.
Treat abilities that remove these penalties normally. Those that remove the -4 for multiple hands at once cost the usual amount and remove up to -4, for at best 0/-4/-4/-4. Those that remove the -4 for off hands cost the usual amount and remove up to -4, for at best -4/-4/-4/-4. Getting both can remove all penalties.

doesn't go against this, on my opinion.
It define the penalties, but just saying that the penalties for attacking with 2 extra arms are -4/-8/-8/-8 doesn't mean you actually get the 4 attacks without paying for extra-attack or something.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

just saying that the penalties for attacking with 2 extra arms are -4/-8/-8/-8 doesn't mean you actually get the 4 attacks without paying for extra-attack or something.

Kinda seems to, otherwise where are the -4 penalties coming from? It's the DWA tech.

I liked the proposal of allowing unlimited DWA but being -8 for 3 hits, -12 for 4 hits, -16 for 5 hits, etc. That'd be about the limit for an average human who somehow throws 2 kicks, 2 punches and some head thing (bite or headbutt).

Throwing 2 kicks at exact same time is probably going to make you fall unless you're already lying down. That's why when people do this IRL they do a big leap first so that after landing the kicks there's more time to roll breakfall and land in a crouch.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Plane

Kinda seems to, otherwise where are the -4 penalties coming from? It's the DWA tech.

I liked the proposal of allowing unlimited DWA but being -8 for 3 hits, -12 for 4 hits, -16 for 5 hits, etc. That'd be about the limit for an average human who somehow throws 2 kicks, 2 punches and some head thing (bite or headbutt).

Throwing 2 kicks at exact same time is probably going to make you fall unless you're already lying down. That's why when people do this IRL they do a big leap first so that after landing the kicks there's more time to roll breakfall and land in a crouch.

Another thought is use your idea for increasingly bigger penalties unless you have Weapon/Trained by a Master. For that above dragon, it would either be striking at huge penalties or it spent even more points on TbaM with the points spent on all of those attacks to be able to use them all in one turn and is clearly some important dragon instead of something run-of-the-mill.

Originally Posted by Ejidoth

I think tying the number of attacks directly to the number of arms leads to trouble, given that dual-weapon attack could plausibly also use attacks that aren't arm-based, like wing/tail strikers, headbutts, kicks, etc, and there's no reason extra arms should make those any easier.

Also, dual weapon attack's -4 vs. rapid strike's -6 always seemed to me to be a technique version of Extra Attack and Extra Attack (Multi-Strike), respectively.
Since Rapid Strike lets you stack additional pseudo-levels of 'Extra Attack (Multi-Strike)' for -6 per level, having a multi-weapon attack stack extra -4s for additional pseudo-levels of 'Extra Attack' strikes me as more logical than saying you get Extra Attack Infinity because you took -4 to your attack roll.

That's how I've always run it.

Originally Posted by Celjabba

It define the penalties, but just saying that the penalties for attacking with 2 extra arms are -4/-8/-8/-8 doesn't mean you actually get the 4 attacks without paying for extra-attack or something.

Actually it does, as Extra Attack gives an extra attack at no penalties and Kromm is explicitly saying you are paying for it with Extra Arms.

It jut so happens that in this case, I disagree with Kromm. Extra Arms already give's a great value at 10 points, stacking an Extra Attack on there in a specific circumstance to me is a tad overkill.

It also some what goes against the spirit of the Coleopteran build in DF 3 The Next Level, unless he intends for them to able to make 5 attacks in turn (DWA with 4 arms and an Extra Attack), and I don't think that was the intent.