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Old 08-16-2020, 10:09 AM   #21
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: New perks

Is this overpowered as an MA Style Perk?

Deceptive Skill†: A successful melee attack reduces an opponent’s defenses by 1 for every 4 points by which the effective skill roll was made. This is simply an undeclared Deceptive Attack that is half as effective as a declared Deceptive Attack; these defense penalties stack with other penalties. If, for example, a fighter with skill 16 makes a -2 Deceptive Attack at an effective skill of 12, then an attack roll of 8 or lower will give the opponent an additional -1 penalty to defend, for a total penalty of -3. The fighter must specialize by melee or unarmed attack skill.
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Old 08-16-2020, 10:20 AM   #22
Anders
 
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Default Re: New perks

Looks fine to me.
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Old 08-16-2020, 12:52 PM   #23
johndallman
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Default Re: New perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Is this overpowered as an MA Style Perk?
I reckon it's overpowered compared to Deceptive Attack.

Take someone with effective skill 16 and this perk: he hits 98% of the time, and 74% of the time, the opponent is at -2 or worse to defend.

Someone with the same skill level without this perk can impose a penalty of -2 to defence with Deceptive Attack (-4 to hit, -2 to defence), but he only hits 74% of the time.

With this perk, is Deceptive Attack ever useful?
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:05 PM   #24
JulianLW
 
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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I reckon it's overpowered compared to Deceptive Attack.

Take someone with effective skill 16 and this perk: he hits 98% of the time, and 74% of the time, the opponent is at -2 or worse to defend.

Someone with the same skill level without this perk can impose a penalty of -2 to defence with Deceptive Attack (-4 to hit, -2 to defence), but he only hits 74% of the time.

With this perk, is Deceptive Attack ever useful?
Nope. The first character, with the perk, would hit 98% of the time, but 74% of the time he would impose only -1 to defend. About 26% of the time he would impose -2 to defend. This seems pretty reasonable for a skill of 16 to me. He also spent a CP for the benefit. If the first character did the Deceptive Attack that the second character did, he too would have a 74% chance of hitting and would impose the same penalty, -2 to defend; about 26% of the time would also impose an additional -1, for a total of -3. Clearly, Deceptive Attack is still useful. If you think the perk is overpowered, I can buy that, but not based on your critique, since it's not what I've proposed.

Last edited by JulianLW; 08-16-2020 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:39 PM   #25
kirbwarrior
 
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Default Re: New perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Is this overpowered as an MA Style Perk?

Deceptive Skill†: A successful melee attack reduces an opponent’s defenses by 1 for every 4 points by which the effective skill roll was made. This is simply an undeclared Deceptive Attack that is half as effective as a declared Deceptive Attack; these defense penalties stack with other penalties. If, for example, a fighter with skill 16 makes a -2 Deceptive Attack at an effective skill of 12, then an attack roll of 8 or lower will give the opponent an additional -1 penalty to defend, for a total penalty of -3. The fighter must specialize by melee or unarmed attack skill.
Considering that Deceptive Attack can't reduce skill below 10, I'd also treat it the same for this perk. I'd also cut the max size in half, but I don't recall what that happens to be.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:49 PM   #26
johndallman
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Default Re: New perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
If you think the perk is overpowered, I can buy that, but not based on your critique, since it's not what I've proposed.
Apologies, got the numbers wrong.
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:57 PM   #27
JulianLW
 
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Default Re: New perks

The thing about this perk is that it's only useful for an effective skill of 16 or lower. If you have a higher effective skill, you're better off sinking the extra skill levels into a targeted attack or other technique or a Deceptive Attack. If you roll to hit with an effective skill of 20 and roll an 8 (26% chance), then, with this perk, you'd penalize your opponent by -3. You'd have been better off making a -2 Deceptive Attack, rolling at 16, and then getting an additional -2, for a total of -4, which is a lot, but only 1 better than -3 (and reasonable for a fighter with a skill of 20, I think, which is a lot of points). Basically, this just rewards lucky rolls - with a slightly bigger reward possible for high-skill characters. It will only ever give you, I think, at best a -2 better bonus than you otherwise would have gotten, then only a quarter of the time, and only if your skill is 16 or higher. Any better roll would be a Critical Hit anyway.

Compared to a perk like "Enhanced Critical" from Monster Hunters Power-Ups, available for skill 19+, this doesn't - at least to me - seem overpowered. But, again, I'm open to opinions.

Edit: And, just for the record, both of those attacks, above, are 98% likely to hit; the character paid for the high skill level separately. The perk does make it easier to get some kind of penalty, even if it's usually just an additional -1, while maintaining that high probability of success.

Another Edit: And now I'm just thinking through this out loud. But this perk has about the same utility, it seems to me, as the "Tactical Reading" perk or the Sensitivity skill (which, in perk-compatibility-terms, might be like a "Skill Adaptation") which often gives a +1 based on high skill, and sometimes a +2 based on either high skill or a very good roll.

Last edited by JulianLW; 08-16-2020 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: New perks

Surreal Quality

People see you as odd, but not in a threatening way. Those in authority tend to see you as not a threat (unless you give them reason to think differently). Dreamers and weirdos tend to like you too much. Remember, this is a perk, basically a specialized weaker form of pitiable. This is the upside of being seen as an out of it dreamer.
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Old 08-25-2020, 03:29 PM   #29
kirbwarrior
 
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Default Re: New perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Nope. The first character, with the perk, would hit 98% of the time, but 74% of the time he would impose only -1 to defend. About 26% of the time he would impose -2 to defend. This seems pretty reasonable for a skill of 16 to me. He also spent a CP for the benefit. If the first character did the Deceptive Attack that the second character did, he too would have a 74% chance of hitting and would impose the same penalty, -2 to defend; about 26% of the time would also impose an additional -1, for a total of -3. Clearly, Deceptive Attack is still useful. If you think the perk is overpowered, I can buy that, but not based on your critique, since it's not what I've proposed.
I feel like a different perk with a similar effect makes sense to me; As a variant of No Nuisance Rolls, you always give a -1 to defenses if you're allowed to use Deceptive Attack and your final skill is 16 or better. It seems simpler in play and is definitely useful for the hoops to jump through (assuming it must be taken as a combat perk)
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:47 PM   #30
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: New perks

It just seems wrong to me that Supers with ETS and/or ATR can be stopped in the middle of a turn, no matter how fast they are, by a Mook waiting there with a baseball bat poised over his head. Yes, I know that the Speedster can see the Wait happening and avoid the Mook - or use his extra maneuvers for a runaround attack or whatever - but I think spending a point on this perk is justified - and not overpowered given the costs of either of the prerequisites.

Yes, ETS beats any Wait - but only at the start of combat, apparently. Or have I got this wrong? I've searched the Forum on this: does ETS count as a standing Wait all the time, whenever it comes up against a Waiting opponent? Even in the middle of a combat? (I don't think it does, which is why I came up with this perk.)

Standing Wait: Prereq: ATR or ETS. Any unused maneuver or Extra Attack that remains to be used by the character in a combat turn may be turned into a "Wait" applied to the current maneuver; the unused extra maneuver or Extra Attack is used up in the process. This may be used to counter an opponent's Wait, triggering a "Cascading Waits" situation as per MA 108.
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