11-07-2014, 04:25 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
Little note: technically it's not HT-5 roll, it's HT-6 roll. If someone has HT 15 and gets a critical blow to a head, he rolls against 5 to avoid stunning, and roll 10 or higher mean MoF 5+ and unconsiousness. That means he needs to roll 9 (HT-6) or lower to stay conscious.
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11-07-2014, 04:33 AM | #12 |
Untagged
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
People have been shot in the head and remained conscious. I doubt any small melee weapons have a better chance of reliably killing via head shots while keeping targets silent than bullets.
I do think that most normal humans' first instinct when attacked is to spend at least a fraction of a second evaluating the situation. By the time that's over they've lost consciousness.
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11-07-2014, 04:55 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
Quote:
Only a surprise response can also be a shout/scream in surprise |
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11-07-2014, 05:04 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Estonia
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
I'd think theres a good chance that the stunned reaction involves no loud sound emitted (esp. from headwound knockdown result).
Though nothing to rely on completly. Maybe a luck roll kind of thing for that - 50/50 chances for ordinary surprise stunned reaction, smaller chanche for cry out for stun reaction that involves your brains being shaken inside your skull. (lets say 1/4 or worse) Can modify this with luck advantages etc. There might be tradeoffs -- "Am I more likely to succeed a mouth covering grapple and then continue the grapple and sound suppression for long and effectively enough vs. likelihood in succeeding in some quick and dirty smack to the head and hoping the surprise/stun will be enough to keep the sentry quiet." Probably first one is better for really trained PC-s the latter who have received just a quick instruction or seen hollywoood movies might be better off with just trying their luck with something quick and dirty. |
11-07-2014, 05:42 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
Quote:
I.e if a silent removal isn't really that important you wouldn't go to the trouble of attempting which it self opens you to risk. You'd just shoot them. Which is why as stated it trained as a two man job from a position of surprise, i.e you eliminate variables and stack the situation in your favor as much as possible because the repercussion of failure are high. |
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11-07-2014, 08:37 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
Quote:
Note that when the details of special operations have become public, it's extremely rare that anyone has silently disposed of any guards before infiltrating a building, compound or area. Even Navy SEALS or Delta Force operators just shoot the guards outside before they move closer. In reality, failure is usually too likely and the consequences too severe to risk it. Also note that carrying a suppressed bolt-action rifle with subsonic ammunition and top-of-the-line suppressor is not exactly crude. It's Bond-movie levels of gadgetry, a bulky and heavy special weapon carried only to meet a single esoteric tactical requirement.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 11-08-2014 at 11:12 AM. |
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11-07-2014, 08:52 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
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If you have a knife in one hand, but are willing to use your whole body and the crook of the knife hand to grapple, you clearly have an effective ST higher than just 0.5 x ST. On the other hand, lacking a second hand to grasp with is worth some kind of penalty. I couldn't find a reference in Technical Grappling. My instinct was that using an arm to grapple with while still holding something was equal to using a limb with No Fine Manipulators, which meant that it added 0.3 x ST in such a case. That's how I've played it, at least. Obviously, having Grip Mastery and good Armed Grappling allows you to use the knife for grappling to get full ST and a nice bonus to CP and then switch seamlessly to stabbing with the knife, but not everyone has Grip Mastery for their knives.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! |
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11-07-2014, 10:22 AM | #18 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
Quote:
But the historical suppressors we have written up aren't as good as that. The Welrod in Tactical Shooting is -3, including the -1 for manual action, and its .32 ACP round seems to be already subsonic. And that's supposed to have been the best available for decades. There isn't anything as good as the rules allow in Tactical Shooting AFAICS. |
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11-07-2014, 11:16 AM | #19 | |||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
Quote:
Quote:
I didn't think of subsonic ammo, as that would indeed be very specialised, bondish. Quote:
Ruger Standard MK1's integral suppressor is a -4 after the slidelock mod. Barrett M82A1's is -4, and it's semi-auto (so no bolt-action modifier!); of course, I'm pointing at the suppressor's power, not at the rifle, in this example. (Note: I'm talking about Baffle suppressors; I'm finding Wipers extremely expensive per shot suppressed and quickly-consumable for the sorts of characters I would like to play.) Last edited by vicky_molokh; 11-07-2014 at 11:20 AM. |
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11-07-2014, 11:45 AM | #20 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal
It seems reasonably straightforward with Sound Of One Hand Grappling (MA): since the penalty to initiate a lock or choke with one hand is -2, doing it with two arms but only one hand would be at -1 as the only possible mid-range value. The choke hold I know doesn't rely on the right hand having fingers*, so having them occupied by a knife doesn't seem to be a factor for the ST-based rolls to choke the target. (I'm talking about a right-handed attacker.) After initiating the choke - i.e. once the target started losing FP from suffocation, we don't try to do any MoS-based damage, and go for knifing. Sure, if we tried to choke, we'd be using half ST, so we just don't care. If the target tries to break free, we have to suffer a straight (one-handed) Quick Contest of ST adjusted for Wrestling and/or Power Grappling.
The question is whether the extra risk of breaking free on subsequent turns is worth the stab to the Vitals. * == I suspect e.g. TKD can prove how little I know and give examples. |
Tags |
ambush, backstab, gurkha, martial arts, sentry removal, silent killing, sneak, surprise |
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