Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-15-2019, 12:22 AM   #1
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Stuff you wish GURPS Magic could do

So I have my own magic system and was curious if there is anything in GURPS Magic (or perhaps other systems) that is not doable (or you find difficult to figure out how to do) I would love to hear it.
I have covered most ideas by looking over the books and during play the players have come up with a few more.
But there is always something missing, so I ask the hive mind.
Dont worry about mechanics, just some things you feel no system should be without, personal favorites, and things you'd like to do but might not be able to in GURPS Magic or other systems.

I break everything down into general effects or types, so far I have 37. ie Attack spells is one type.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 01:58 AM   #2
PTTG
 
PTTG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Default Re: Stuff you wish GURPS Magic could do

Oddly enough, I was working on a design outline for a crafting system that ended up being generic enough to be good guidelines for virtually any system, so I do have some thoughts...

Does your magic system help describe the characters and setting? Any wizard can throw a fireball, but if your setting says that there are six houses of the zodiac and each one has an elemental association such that some wizards cast icebolts and others stony clods, that builds world details in. Or maybe a PC has studied the works of the old masters and conjures up their signature spells with ease, casting Filwarks Most Portentious Incineration, whereas most other mages improvise.

In practice, do your wizards take an outsized proportion of game time to cast their spells? A player might give their warrior a cleverly improvised set of actions and steal the stage for a bit, but do your wizards take several minutes each round to describe spell effects, roll concentration, and thumb through rules? A little bit of grandstanding is good! Just not too much, or too frequently -- even if the magic is otherwise balanced in terms of power.

Does magic simulate the stuff that goes on in your setting? A good example is enchanting. If the standard artisan is 150 pts, but you can't enchant anything without a 350 point character, then how do your setting's countless village magic shops work? Alternatively, could a reasonable necromancer make 50 skeleton warriors to fill his base with? Why can't the PCs?

Putting aside the list, there's one thing I think all magic systems need, and it's something that's really hard to bottle, or even describe. Magic should feel magical, supernatural perhaps. In low fantasy, telekinesis should be alien, unsettling, maybe even darkly maddening. In high fantasy, your heroes may have a levitating carriage, but their own powers will be greater, and siphoning fire from the imagination of mankind, channeling it into an orb of white-hot energy with a thought, and charging a daemon of the airs to deliver it to a foe can still be special. And the divinities and mythical beings that break even the laws of magic, too, are not outside the power curve of the PCs...
PTTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 02:35 AM   #3
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Stuff you wish GURPS Magic could do

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTTG View Post
Oddly enough, I was working on a design outline for a crafting system that ended up being generic enough to be good guidelines for virtually any system, so I do have some thoughts...
Cool :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTTG View Post

Does your magic system help describe the characters and setting? Any wizard can throw a fireball, but if your setting says that there are six houses of the zodiac and each one has an elemental association such that some wizards cast icebolts and others stony clods, that builds world details in. Or maybe a PC has studied the works of the old masters and conjures up their signature spells with ease, casting Filwarks Most Portentious Incineration, whereas most other mages improvise.
The system itself is pretty generic but can be given flavor easily enough.
In my setting I have a Lanterns Guild that was loosely based on existing colleges (goes back to Third Edition), another that uses the system based on gems, another based on Trees and plants, and another that is a divine system based on a dieties portfolio.
They all have the same mechanics but spells affect different things. Black Lanterns use water magic, Brass use fire magic, Brown use animal magic.

It is an improvisational system but most spells can be created by a player in a minute. Basically its Pick the Affinity (College) and spell type you want and your done. The spell description for each spell type explains the spell. Most spells are described in a single paragraph (thats why so many types). I started with 16 but this works out faster in play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTTG View Post

In practice, do your wizards take an outsized proportion of game time to cast their spells? A player might give their warrior a cleverly improvised set of actions and steal the stage for a bit, but do your wizards take several minutes each round to describe spell effects, roll concentration, and thumb through rules? A little bit of grandstanding is good! Just not too much, or too frequently -- even if the magic is otherwise balanced in terms of power.
Most spells can be cast in a single turn, working like GURPS Magic. As for flair that could be done by a player but usually not required. So flamboyance and descriptive effects would suit player preference.
A player could also take extra time to offset penalties and that would be a good time to get flamboyant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTTG View Post

Does magic simulate the stuff that goes on in your setting? A good example is enchanting. If the standard artisan is 150 pts, but you can't enchant anything without a 350 point character, then how do your setting's countless village magic shops work? Alternatively, could a reasonable necromancer make 50 skeleton warriors to fill his base with? Why can't the PCs?
It can work at various power levels, I set it up as a three tiered system.
Tier 1 is cheaper but takes longer (doesn't require Magery but takes 10 minutes at minimum to cast, a day for more powerful spells, longer for bonuses.
Tier 2 is more like regular magic and at comparable cost.
Tier 3 is archwizard/supers level and gets expensive fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTTG View Post

Putting aside the list, there's one thing I think all magic systems need, and it's something that's really hard to bottle, or even describe. Magic should feel magical, supernatural perhaps. In low fantasy, telekinesis should be alien, unsettling, maybe even darkly maddening. In high fantasy, your heroes may have a levitating carriage, but their own powers will be greater, and siphoning fire from the imagination of mankind, channeling it into an orb of white-hot energy with a thought, and charging a daemon of the airs to deliver it to a foe can still be special. And the divinities and mythical beings that break even the laws of magic, too, are not outside the power curve of the PCs...
What I have is a generic system that can be tailored to most settings. The magic system itself doesn't have a specific flavor as your describing and requesting.
Flavoring it isnt hard though. For example if I were setting it as Dr. Strange I would create colleges for the beings he invokes. Chains of Cyttorak, Shields of Seraphim, Winds of Watoomb, Icy Tendrils of Ikthalon, Illusions of Ikonn, Moons of Munnopor, Vishanti, Crystals of Cyndriarr, etc.
It could be applied to the Deacons from GURPS Cabal and GURPS Thaumatology, various gods or demons, etc.

So flavor would be largely dictated by the colleges or sources but could also be influenced by things that give bonuses or penalties such as tomes, significant materials, or sacred places.
I hope thats not too disappointing to you.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 07:18 AM   #4
Extrarius
 
Extrarius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Psionic Ward
Default Re: Stuff you wish GURPS Magic could do

One thing I miss from the other game is 'Wondrous Items', which are just quirky items that span the whole price range and allow even relatively broke characters to have some kind of 'fun' magic item that is at least occasionally useful. When playing the other game, I almost always buy wondrous items before I bother with things like slightly improved weapons and armor because they're just more fun and they can enable outside-the-box (especially for the other game) solutions to the random challenges adventurers face.

I suppose this comes down to a request for a versatile enchanting system that allows both a variety of effects and for (some) very low cost items to be produced.

Last edited by Extrarius; 01-15-2019 at 09:31 AM.
Extrarius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 11:30 AM   #5
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Stuff you wish GURPS Magic could do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extrarius View Post
One thing I miss from the other game is 'Wondrous Items', which are just quirky items that span the whole price range and allow even relatively broke characters to have some kind of 'fun' magic item .
Are you sure that was the link you wanted? That was just the "miscellaneous" section of the 3.5 srd. All things that weren't under other categories. Very little that was inexpensive and lots of things that were pretty ordianry sorts of buffs.

Gurps Magic has plenty of "fun" but cheap items.

100 energy for the Umbrella spell and you don't get wet when it rains. More than just fun if you're a ranger or some other outdoorsy type.

Preserve Food for 20 energy/lb. Fresh strawberries in the middle of winter.

Then there's Hideaway. For 100 energy/lb you can hide multple doses of of potions in a piece of jewelry.

Back to the rangers and you can have super tough boots cheaply too.

There's lots of stuff.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 01:25 PM   #6
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Stuff you wish GURPS Magic could do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extrarius View Post
I suppose this comes down to a request for a versatile enchanting system that allows both a variety of effects and for (some) very low cost items to be produced.
Enchantment is similar in cost (base FP) to the default system but includes ways to stretch Q&D such as tapping Ley Lines (or other sources), and existing options such as Mass Magic (Thaumatology), Threshold (Thaumatology), Corruption and Spirit Assisted (Thaumatology and Horror), Charged Items (Thoroughly Modern Magic, Pyramid #3/66).
Also Slow and Sure uses some House Rules such as up to Magery per day so thats faster.
So overall faster/cheaper magic item creation with various options to extend the limit of Q&D. Versatile/Improvised spell system requires fewer points spent on spells than the Enchant system so a one trick pony could make magic items or a master could create quite a variety.
Pretty sure I got your request covered. Thank you.
Some good thoughts, thank you all so far!
Next?
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.