"Help me out here!" rule clarification

[Delgas]

Well, I've been reading the forums for quite while until now, and I could solve all my problems within the game, but I found something that i couldn't work out, so I finally decided to register! haha!

First of all: my english is not that good, but I'll try to be as clear as possible.

I have a doubt about the HMOH in a very specific scenario, which I searched in the forums and found no answers. As everybody knows, you can only use the card if the item will raise your power level enough to beat the monsters, thus cards like "pollymorph potion" and "magic lamp" can't be used, because they end the combat without any fighting, let's say.

But, as Andrew and MunchkinMan pointed out in a thread, what would happen if you are facing two monsters? This is the situation:

- Player A is facing two monsters that he can't defeat;
- Player B is carrying a pollymorph potion or a magic lamp;
- Player A uses Help Me out Here! to take the pollymorph potion and uses it on one of the monsters;
- He didn't end the combat, and now his power level can beat the remaining monster.

Would this be allowed? I know it's very specific, and usually you don't see pollymorph potions and magic lamps lying around the table, but it could happen.

And if is not asking too much, i would like to know who in the forums have the "final words" about the rules. I know about Andrew and MunchkinMan, but is there any others?

Thanks in advance.

[Enzzo]

From the FAQ, you cannot take an Item that does not change your combat strength. Neither of those items changes your combat strength.

Originally Posted by The FAQ

Q. Can I use Help Me Out Here to take Pollymorph Potion (or Magic Lamp, or . . .) to take a monster out of the fight?
A. For purposes of Help Me Out Here, "winning" means beating the monster's combat strength. The Item you take must raise your combat strength enough to beat the monster's (or, like with the Kneepads, immediately lead to that situation). You cannot use Help Me Out Here if you are already winning, you cannot use it to take an Item that isn't strong enough to put you over, and you cannot use it to take an Item that doesn't change your combat strength.

So regardless of being able to win or not by taking the Item, it does not change your combat strength; ergo you could not take it.

But you could take a one-shot Item that changes your own combat strength (e.g. Doppelgangers, Potion of Idiotic Bravery) and use it, provided it makes the difference between winning and losing. :)

[Enzzo]

Originally Posted by Delgas

And if is not asking too much, i would like to know who in the forums have the "final words" about the rules. I know about Andrew and MunchkinMan, but is there any others?

Devin Lewis also has the ability to make official rulings :)

[Delgas]

Thanks, Enzzo!

I got confused because of these posts:

First, MunchkinMan says this: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...19&postcount=5

Then, Andrew replies: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...63&postcount=9

MunchkinMan replies to Andrew: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=11

And, finally, Andrew says this: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=13

So it was not clear to me if they agreed on a rule or if they were not sure, too. The thread is from 2010.

[Enzzo]

I hadn't seen that post. It does seem like the FAQ contradicts what Andrew said, so we'd have to wait for an official word from them :)

[Andrew Hackard]

I think the FAQ needs to be revisited on this point. I have no problem with someone using HMOH to take Pollymorph Potion or Magic Lamp for the express purpose of removing a monster from combat.

The clarification I wish I'd been smart enough to offer back then is that HMOH implies (but doesn't state, something that I think we may want to consider making explicit) that you have to USE the Item you take, and use it pretty much immediately. Looked at from that perspective, as long as removing a monster from the fight would enable you to start winning it, I think this is fine.

[Delgas]

Except when there is only one monster in the fight, as it would end the combat immediately, right?

And you couldn't use HMOH to get items like the friendship potion, even if you are facing 2+ monsters, because that item would end the combat without any fighting, too. Is that right?