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Old 11-19-2018, 07:37 AM   #21
RobW
 
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Default Re: Skarg's clarification house rule wording for Combat Options

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Reading further in the new edition I notice the addition of a very interesting word, which did not appear previously:

Options
(C) Dodge. Move up to half its MA while dodging.

The word "while" is new and implies that the action of dodging occurs during movement. Unfortunately, the word does not occur with The Defend option.

I don't know if the addition of the word was carefully considered or accidental.
The specific word "while" was specifically queried in a thread that SJ said he was paying attention to. He had no specific comment on this query, but did say he didn't see a general issue and felt making changes would probably be inappropriate.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:11 AM   #22
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Default Re: Skarg's clarification house rule wording for Combat Options

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
It's clearly laid out in the rules. I'll just pick out the key bits:

ITL p101. Turn Sequencing and Options..."during each turn, each figure may execute one "option" from the list below. Each option consists of a movement, attack, defence or other combination...."

ITL page 102. "During combat events follow a strict sequence. Each turn goes through these stages.

1) Roll for Initiative

2) Renew Spells

3) Movement. "The first player to move chooses one option....and executes the movement part.."

4) Actions. "All attacks, spell casting, attempts to disbelieve, etc., are carried out. Figures act in order of adjDX."

So it's very clear that EVERYTHING that happens other than Movement is an "Action" and is governed by adjDX. It makes no difference whether you change options - the sequencing is governed by the strict rules detailed above.

And that is why I have a problem with Dodge and Defend in the RAW.
If I were to try to force a rational interpretation on RAW I would suggest that Defend and Dodge are not part of step 4 above. Neither Dodge nor Defend "happens" at your adjDX, they "happen" when you are attacked by someone else who may have any adjDX. Although see other threads to hear about problems with this.

Another way to think of it might be, when I select Shift and Defend, it means that I am now in a state of Defending, as of the end of movement. If attacked by someone of higher adjDX they roll extra dice to hit me.

And perhaps another crumb of support might be the brief and highly overloaded text on p 102 about changing options, which says "During a turn, a player may change his mind....." This vague language of "During a turn", as opposed to, "When his time to act comes", suggests you could change your mind even when it is not your time for action by adjDX. That is, having initially declared you would shift and disbelieve, you could change to shift and defend if attacked by a figure of higher adjDX.

But yes, it's all really unclear, and I'm not convinced the above is correct interpretation, or desirable gameplay.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:47 AM   #23
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Skarg's clarification house rule wording for Combat Options

I think the "During a turn, a player may change his mind" is SJ's attempt to rewrite the old Changing Options rule, and SJ wrote himself when we were pressing him on this at the last moment, that he didn't understand what we were driving at.

Also, since I know from extensive play that I really like how the original Changing Options rule plays, and that I have tested how it plays when you force figures to lock in Defend or Dodge at the end of their movement, and that I think that plays rotten, I look at any changes in that direction as misunderstandings, mistakes, or unwise changes that I'd houserule against, and if made to play with, I would exploit mercilessly partly with the goal of showing people why it's a problem.

It's no fun having to declare your figures' Options while moving first, and then have your foes move so that your figures can't do anything useful because the Dodgers are getting Engaged and can't fight back, the Defenders are being ignored, and the Attackers are being two-hex-jabbed and can't Defend.
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:40 AM   #24
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Skarg's clarification house rule wording for Combat Options

The "Ready a Weapon?" question on the main forum brought up that this same weird use of the word "move" when it means "act" is even more obvious appears again in the header to the list of Engaged options.

I'm hoping that puts a final nail in the coffin of the idea that SJ intentionally meant to change the game in a surreal way so that Options available for action purposes to be based on the situation at the time the figure moved during the Movement phase.
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:03 AM   #25
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Default Re: Skarg's clarification house rule wording for Combat Options

Thanks for this discussion. After reviewing the rules and playing some games with my group, I've reworded the movement and actions to make it easier for us to follow.

Players move their figures and then, when a figure's turn comes based on its adjDX, pick an action based on how it moved, with the caveat that a figure can't move more than one hex if it is already engaged, and its move ends if it becomes engaged.

Move up to full MA--no further action
Move up to ½ MA--attack, dodge/defend, or drop in hex
Move up to 2 hexes--change weapon or crawl
Move up to 1 hex--shoot, disengage, cast spell, or disbelieve illusion
No movement--stand up
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:30 PM   #26
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Skarg's clarification house rule wording for Combat Options

^ Exactly. :-)
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