Remnant Questions

[Jason]

Today, I got to play in a group that pounded the living daylights out of a demon in celestial form until he lost all his celestial Forces, leaving him a remnant. This was pretty satisfying until we realized we had some questions left over that didn't seem addressed in the rule books we had handy. Those that I remember include:

1. If a Malakite is involved in the original beat-down on the demon, has he satisfied his obligation to "never suffer an evil to live" by taking away anything that identified this thing as an inherently evil creature, or does he need to finish the job?

Which brings us to....

2. What happens to the remnant's soul upon corporeal death? I'm assuming its link back to its Heart is null, or else they'd be easier to track than the core rules suggest. Do they end up alongside the human souls in Heaven or Hell, waiting in line to get in like everyone else? Do they end up in Limbo forever? Do their souls just discorporate, scattering into the Symphony? (This one seems most logical to me, I suppose.)

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Jason

1. If a Malakite is involved in the original beat-down on the demon, has he satisfied his obligation to "never suffer an evil to live" by taking away anything that identified this thing as an inherently evil creature, or does he need to finish the job?

2. What happens to the remnant's soul upon corporeal death? Do their souls just discorporate, scattering into the Symphony? (This one seems most logical to me, I suppose.)

1) Making the demon a remnant is usually good enough to avoid Dissonance, but a lot of Malakim would finish him off anyway.
2)You got it. When a Remnant's killed, that's it.

[Archangel Beth]

What DAlillama said, yup! Generally satisfies the "evil now dead" requirements, but it can be considered cruel (either to the Remnant or, if the Remnant is sufficiently anti-social, humans) to leave it alive, and once the vessel's dead, the last remnants (ha) of the Remnant are dispersed into the Symphony.

[Jason]

Excellent, thanks.

(For what it's worth, I pinged my immediate Superior with Celestial Tongues—like a good little Swordie—to get an official order on how to handle the guy. Was told, "Use your judgment." So I told the rest of the party to get in the car. To the other players' surprise, I stayed out of the car myself to skewer the poor sod out of pity and for the sake of completeness …*but some other demon came along and did it for me.)

[tHEhERETIC]

Originally Posted by Jason

Today, I got to play in a group that pounded the living daylights out of a demon in celestial form until he lost all his celestial Forces, leaving him a remnant....

2. What happens to the remnant's soul upon corporeal death? I'm assuming its link back to its Heart is null, or else they'd be easier to track than the core rules suggest. Do they end up alongside the human souls in Heaven or Hell, waiting in line to get in like everyone else? Do they end up in Limbo forever? Do their souls just discorporate, scattering into the Symphony? (This one seems most logical to me, I suppose.)

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

What DAlillama said, yup! Generally satisfies the "evil now dead" requirements, but it can be considered cruel (either to the Remnant or, if the Remnant is sufficiently anti-social, humans) to leave it alive, and once the vessel's dead, the last remnants (ha) of the Remnant are dispersed into the Symphony.

I played through this scenario actually. late April 2008 As usual I was loose canon, read the rules at the time but couldn't quote them now. I figured that once the Celestial Forces were all gone that it wasn't a Celestial anymore, meaning that Pepito wasn't Pepito anymore. As far as I was concerned Pepito was dead and the poor dumb thing walking around in his vessel had no soul, was really just the vessel itself with some memories inside--and not many of those as he had precious few Ethereal Forces and he'd lost some of those too.

We deemed it more merciful to all concerned to humanely kill the remnant.

[Archangel Beth]

*nod* Zooooommmmmbiiiiiiieeeee vessel, basically. (Ew! Ick! Creepy!)

For more fun and games, one can ask a Superior to stick some CelForces onto the Remnant, resulting in a New Being that may have some residual memories. This can be poignant -- the New Being could be considered a "child" of the original's Forces. Or it can be creepy. (I think I recall a Kyriotate possessing a Remnant once, and remarking something like "EW! I'm in a corpse!!!")

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

For more fun and games, one can ask a Superior to stick some CelForces onto the Remnant, resulting in a New Being that may have some residual memories. This can be poignant -- the New Being could be considered a "child" of the original's Forces.

Our GM was kind enough to let us pull this one off, producing a being who was truly ready for a fresh start in life. Of course, it didn't hurt that we had both Eli and Yves contributing CelForces ... the two beings in all the Symphony who might best understand how to do this *right*.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

For more fun and games, one can ask a Superior to stick some CelForces onto the Remnant, resulting in a New Being that may have some residual memories. This can be poignant -- the New Being could be considered a "child" of the original's Forces. Or it can be creepy.

Does the result (angel, demon, ethereal) depend entirely on who's contributing those Forces, or is a former demon remnant only able to be remade into a demon again?

[ladyarcana55]

Quick question from the newb...

How does a Celestial know if someone they meet is a Remnant?

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by ladyarcana55

Quick question from the newb...

How does a Celestial know if someone they meet is a Remnant?

One great clue is if you resonate on them and get absolutely nothing.