03-21-2019, 04:44 PM | #81 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Tech Level Question
Alternate History novels work that way. Stories based on contact with strange societies (often but not always aliens) don't, unless the strange society is also an alternate history.
The other problem with X+Y is that you can have multiple radically different things that are all denoted the same way. To give an extreme (and cinematic) example, I played in a GURPS Starcraft game some years back. That setting has Terrans that we can reasonably call some flavor of TL 9, and both Protoss and Zerg would be 0+9 -- but they're as dissimilar from one another as they are from Terran tech. |
03-21-2019, 05:34 PM | #82 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Tech Level Question
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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03-21-2019, 05:51 PM | #83 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Tech Level Question
Agreed, but the question is whether the X+Y notation is actually useful. Almost all variant tech paths in fiction where Y is more than 1 involve extensive TL^ stuff or are variants with no common root (so 0+Y), and there really isn't a meaningful mainline tech past 8, everything winds up at least somewhat customized.
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03-21-2019, 06:24 PM | #84 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Tech Level Question
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Azoth-7: originally TL(4+2) (space travel and weapons are TL4^), now TL(4+2)^ Qabala: originally "TL is barely 5", now TL(4+2)^ GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire formalizes this change as seen by three of the items in the preview: Elecrolabe - originally TL(5+1), now TL(5+1)^ Mesmeric Wand - originally TL(5+1), now TL(5+1)^ X-Ray Goggles - originally TL(5+1), now TL(6+1)^ So TL(x+y)^ is formally a thing and separate from TL(x+y). Last edited by maximara; 03-21-2019 at 06:30 PM. |
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03-21-2019, 06:45 PM | #85 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Tech Level Question
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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03-21-2019, 07:15 PM | #86 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Tech Level Question
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As for different divergent TLs with the same values: if you must distinguish between them, use a subscript or some other marker. The modern world where computers never got out of the home computer phase might be TL(7+1A), while the world where we didn't develop space materials might be TL(7+1B). |
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03-22-2019, 01:37 AM | #87 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Tech Level Question
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But the Romulans...the Romulans are different. They use pet black holes as power sources, cloaking devices instead of shields, and plasma torpedoes. TL 9+3 when they first show up. The Tholians are different too, but differently different. They don't have nacelles, and they use those weird net generators. Let's say 6+6. It kind of makes sense because the Tholians and the Romulans are both insular cultures, independently developed. But the difference between the Tholians and the Romulans doesn't even matter. They don't even meet each other. Their divergences only matter with regard to the reference society of the PCs. |
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03-22-2019, 05:48 AM | #88 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Tech Level Question
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Based on the TOS episodes using the 3e system the Federation sits around TL(7+2). In the current system huge hunks of Federation tech is superscience. Also per "Piece of the Action" and Worlds of the Federation a TL6 imitative (not inventive) culture has got to be able to replicate some TOS Federation tech with only one piece of that equipment to study. If they break it they can't learn enough to duplicate the tech. So either the Federation is TL9 max and/or the transtator is superscience that can be studied and replicated as early as TL6. The only true co-contemporary (rather then let's retroactively do current tech with old ala the Besler Steam Plane) TL(5+1) vs TL6 I know of and is clearly identifiable as such is the Speaking Mutoscope; TL(5+1) vs Lauste's 1907 sound on film method. For some strange reason it is not noted that the Speaking Mutoscope was really invented under the name kinetoscope in 1896. In fact, Le Duel d'Hamlet starring Sarah Bernhardt was shown at the Paris Exposition in 1900. Sadly the cylinder recording that contained Sarah Bernhardt's voice has been lost (the picture itself has survived) but the ones from Cyrano de Bergerac (1900) and Little Titch y sus Big Boots (1900) have. These along with the 1912 Edison's Kinetophone demonstration film allows one to see examples of the technology. What makes this Divergent Technology is that the Speaking Mutoscope used mechanical means so common to TL5 to sync picture and sound. Its TL6 counterpart used the electrical means that would be common at that TL. Last edited by maximara; 03-22-2019 at 08:12 AM. |
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03-22-2019, 08:11 AM | #89 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
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Re: Tech Level Question
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Humans: TL 8 x_1 Steampunk humans: TL 5 x_1 + 1 x_2 Protoss: TL 9 x_3 Zerg: TL 9 x_4 Or you can use quaternion notation with 4 or less divergent paths. Luke |
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03-22-2019, 09:57 AM | #90 | |||||
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Tech Level Question
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Based on their economy, which is really the only solid measure they sit at 12. Quote:
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Last edited by David Johnston2; 03-22-2019 at 10:17 AM. |
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