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Old 08-09-2018, 06:31 AM   #1
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

Do the new rules handle this?

It occurred to me that you could roll 3 dice first, check for automatics and criticals, and then add in more dice if it's not automatic or critical. This would keep the same probabilities for automatic and critical success / failure.

You could also have 3 white dice, use other colors for extra dice, and roll them all at the same time, using only the white ones for automatic / critical results.

Last edited by zot; 08-09-2018 at 06:35 AM. Reason: amendment
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:01 AM   #2
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Do the new rules handle this? ...

You could also have 3 white dice, use other colors for extra dice, and roll them all at the same time, using only the white ones for automatic / critical results.
Hi Zot, everyone.
I like your 3 colored dice suggestion above, but the old TFT DID cover this situation. On the old GM shield there are critical results for non-standard number of dice, so it can be said that the old TFT handled it. However, those numbers on the GM shield were rarely used information that I always had to look up (even if it meant digging the GM shield out), until I memorized the table.

Your system of 3 dice a single color is MUCH easier to remember.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:45 AM   #3
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Do the new rules handle this?

It occurred to me that you could roll 3 dice first, check for automatics and criticals, and then add in more dice if it's not automatic or critical. This would keep the same probabilities for automatic and critical success / failure.

You could also have 3 white dice, use other colors for extra dice, and roll them all at the same time, using only the white ones for automatic / critical results.
An elegant solution to a particularly annoying problem. Thanks.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:53 AM   #4
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

I mentioned using more than one die color in another thread and Skarg said 3 of one color would work fine for the probabilities, so he deserves credit too! Multiple colors is easier than rolling three and then adding more.

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
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Originally Posted by zot View Post
Had anyone talked about using different colored dice? I haven't looked at the probabilities for that yet...
Not that I recall, but it's certainly an easy way to get the exact same odds of crit success/failure. Just always have 3 dice the same color, and use those dice only to determine the usual end results on 3 dice, with the other dice only mattering if you haven't rolled a 3-5 or 16-18.

But that's only good IF that is really what you want.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:58 AM   #5
flankspeed
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
.... You could also have 3 white dice, use other colors for extra dice, and roll them all at the same time, using only the white ones for automatic / critical results.
I love the sheer elegance of this idea! No need to even waste space on a GM screen or in the rule books to delineate critical results for rolls of more than 3 dice. I presume the 3 dice representing the automatic/critical results would override the total of all the dice taken together IF the 3 dice came up with automatic/critical numbers.

I just noticed the same technique could be used with throws of 2 dice for especially easy tasks. Roll 2 dice of one color and 1 die of another color. Use the 3 dice together to determine automatic successes, failures, and crits, but read only the 2 dice of one color for normal results.

Task rolls of only 1 die are already considered automatic successes, but 3 dice could still be rolled together to see if a critical success comes up while ignoring any other result than a critical success.

This multi-colored dice approach seems to be a nice, elegant solution to rolls of any number of dice!
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Last edited by flankspeed; 08-09-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:06 AM   #6
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

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Originally Posted by flankspeed View Post
I love the sheer elegance of this idea! No need to even waste space on a GM screen or in the rule books to delineate critical results for rolls of more than 3 dice. I presume the three dice representing the automatic/critical results would override the total of all the dice taken together IF the three came up with automatic/critical numbers.

I just noticed the same technique could be used with throws of 2 dice for especially easy tasks. Roll two dice of one color and one dice of another color. Use the three dice together to determine automatic successes, failures, and crits, but read only the two dice of one color for normal results.

Task rolls of only 1 die are already considered automatic successes, but 3 dice could still be rolled together to see if a critical success comes up while ignoring any automatic or critical failures.

This multi-colored dice approach seems to be a nice, elegant solution to rolls of any number of dice!
Yes, if the three white dice roll an automatic or critical result, you ignore the others (like with the roll-3 and then more method).

Oh, I hadn't thought about rolling fewer dice -- that's a great idea!
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:24 AM   #7
flankspeed
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
Yes, if the three white dice roll an automatic or critical result, you ignore the others (like with the roll-3 and then more method).

Oh, I hadn't thought about rolling fewer dice -- that's a great idea!
Thanks! To stay in line with the idea of reading the 3 dice first, when rolling only 2 dice of one color plus a third die, the total of all 3 would override whatever is rolled on the 2 dice of one color.

A nice side effect of this method is that the original rules only stated a 2 dice roll automatically succeeded on a 2 and failed on a 12. By rolling 3 dice in total, we can still determine critical hits and misses even when rolling what would normally be only a 2 dice roll in the original rules.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:30 AM   #8
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

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Originally Posted by flankspeed View Post
Thanks! To stay in line with the idea of reading the 3 dice first, when rolling only 2 dice of one color plus a third die, the total of all 3 would override whatever is rolled on the 2 dice of one color.

A nice side effect of this method is that the original rules only stated a 2 dice roll automatically succeeded on a 2 and failed on a 12. By rolling 3 dice in total, we can still determine critical hits and misses even when rolling what would normally be only a 2 dice roll in the original rules.
Hmm, another possibility would be to just keep with the 3 white dice but add 1 or 2 to use for the 1 or 2 dice roll, only using them for a "normal" result on the 3 dice.

Maybe that horks the probabilities too much though, I don't know. Probably better to stick with your method and keep the 1 or 2 dice as part of the 3.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:58 AM   #9
flankspeed
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
.... Probably better to stick with your method and keep the 1 or 2 dice as part of the 3.
I found a thread in the House Rules that seems to also be addressing this topic. Perhaps the topic does belong in House Rules, but here is the thread and then a summary I posted over there:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=159086

ROLLS BY DICE:

-- 1d: Automatic Success, but roll 3d anyway, use result only if a critical success

-- 2d: Roll 2d of one color plus 1d of another color, read all 3 dice first for automatic success/failure/crit, if no automatic results then read the 2d of one color normally

-- 3d: Roll 3d normally and determine automatic success/failure/crit normally

-- 4d or more: Roll 3d of one color plus as many more differently colored dice as needed, read the 3 dice of one color first for automatic success/failure/crit, if no automatic results then read the total of all dice normally

NOTE: Of course, different sized dice could be used instead of differently colored ones. Also, you don't really need colored or sized dice if you can merely be sure to segregate the dice so on a 2d roll you have two dice you can read separately among the three dice, or on a roll of 4d or more you have three dice you can read separately among the four or more dice.
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Last edited by flankspeed; 08-09-2018 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:22 AM   #10
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Critical success / failure on more than 3 dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankspeed View Post
I found a thread in the House Rules that seems to also be addressing this topic. Perhaps the topic does belong in House Rules, but here is the thread and then a summary I posted over there:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=159086

ROLLS BY DICE:

-- 1d: Automatic Success, but roll 3d anyway, use result only if a critical success

-- 2d: Roll 2d of one color plus 1d of another color, read all 3 dice first for automatic success/failure/crit, if no automatic results then read the 2d of one color normally

-- 3d: Roll 3d normally and determine automatic success/failure/crit normally

-- 4d or more: Roll 3d of one color plus as many more differently colored dice as needed, read the 3 dice of one color first for automatic success/failure/crit, if no automatic results then read the total of all dice normally
ITL doesn't actually say what counts for double or triple damage on more than 3 dice, like if you're defending or dodging, it only addresses automatic success and failure for rolls with more than 3 dice. That's why I made this thread in the main forum.

Since I was already asking, I thought I'd suggest using three of the dice you roll for autos / criticals, since ITL doesn't cover it anyway. I couldn't resist throwing my $0.02 in. Of course I hadn't thought about rolling fewer dice. Glad you contributed that.
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