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Old 01-21-2010, 09:47 AM   #11
davidtmoore
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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Originally Posted by Sdrolion View Post
Hm...all right. That's an interesting way of doing things, whether it's straight rules or not, honestly. ^_^ Kind of nicer than a "straight replace" idea.

I think I'm generally clear on the reaction vs. influence question, then. I'm still kind of up in the air on Interrogation. It just seems like Interrogation is kind of just a combination in one roll of Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, and Intimidation that's only really usable if you've got the guy captive. Which is nice, on the one hand...but on the other, it seems like you could still use Intimidation, etc., even if you have a prisoner, right? And again, it kind of seems like you should still have to use Diplomacy to "buddy up" to the guy, Fast-Talk or Acting to "trick" him during interrogation, or Intimidation to make threats...so I'm not sure how kosher Interrogation is, given all that. Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding that one?
Related but similar.

Intimidation is convincing someone you are willing and able to hurt them, irrespective of whether either is true. You can use it "in the field," as it were; when facing down a ganger in a darkened alleyway, convincing him that you're tougher than him is preferable to fighting him.

You can also use it when questioning someone (basically, threats and displays of force), but the crux is: just because you've convinced him that you'll hurt him if he doesn't cooperate doesn't mean he's going to. He may be more frightened of someone else, for instance; a policeman using Intimidation could convince Jimmy Two-Times that he's willing to risk his badge by slapping him around, but Jimmy's unlikely to accept that the cop's gonna actually kill him, while he knows for sure that Big Boy will kill him if he spills. He's willing to be slapped around a bit, so convincing him that you're gonna slap him around isn't much of a threat. Or he might just be immune to pain and unafraid of death, in which case you could have him stone-cold convinced that you will definitely kill him immediately if he doesn't answer, but, again, not likely to sway him.

Interrogation is specifically used to get an answer out of him. It overlaps Intimidation, because fear is a popular interrogation tool, but covers psychological trickery, for example, and torture - which isn't about convincing someone you can hurt them, since you are actually hurting them right now, but about offering the exchange: I'll stop hurting you if you talk.

So if you think fear will work, Intimidation's your boy. And you'll note that there's an Intimidation default to Interrogation as well. But if the subject has a greater, competing fear, or isn't likely to be swayed by fear, then you need stronger methods.
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:51 AM   #12
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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Originally Posted by Sdrolion View Post
1. How do you actually use them? ...do I roll for every question, request, transaction, etc, a PC does? Or do I just roll at the start of the conversation and use that result for all the various categories?
I do the latter, with the caveat that if the situation changes significantly, new rolls may be required. For example, if a PC attends a fancy party disguised as someone else, and the disguise is revealed mid-party, new reaction rolls will be required from NPCs, possibly at a penalty.

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Originally Posted by Sdrolion
2. Are there any things that influence skills should be allowed to do that reaction rolls are not allowed to do?
There's a couple of things that influence skills cover that straight-up reaction rolls don't. First, the type of reaction an influence skill creates is more controlled. Sex Appeal always provides a good reaction composed of positive attraction, Diplomacy always provides a good reaction composed of helpful assistance, and so forth. Whereas a plain reaction roll might create a good reaction, but how that reaction manifests is more up to the GM. For example, say a male PC comes into a bar looking for information. The bartender is female, and the PC is reasonably attractive. The PC decides not to roll against an influence skill (none of his are very high), and just rely on a reaction roll. The GM rolls a good reaction, and decides that the bartender is attracted to him. Unfortunately, the PC has no Sex Appeal skill, and is thus at a bit of a loss when the bartender starts flirting. If he had rolled Diplomacy instead of relying on a straight-up reaction roll, he could have "channeled" his interaction with the bartender into a more businesslike one.

The other thing that I allow influence skills to do that plain reaction rolls don't is to overcome "capped" reactions (although usually at a penalty). For example, the PCs might venture into a bad area of town, and run across a street gang. I've decided that the street gang are unpleasant sorts who will not react at better than Poor to anyone. However, I'd allow someone to use Diplomacy or Fast Talk, for example, to get a better reaction, albeit at a penalty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdrolion
3. I'm not clear at all on how interrogation works, and how it relates to the influence skills and reaction rolls. I get that you roll for each question and that it takes 5 minutes (presumably summarized) per question, but I can't figure out why I'd want to use Interrogation instead of Diplomacy, Intimidation, or Fast Talk.
Interrogation is for when you absolutely need to know information from someone, and can't risk them resisting you. Reaction rolls for requests for information will be penalized by things like how important the information is to the target - if you've captured a thug, it's very difficult to fast-talk them into telling you where their buddies' hideout is, and it should be basically impossible to use sweet reason. Interrogation, on the other hand, is only penalized if the target has serious disads, like Fanaticism, that gives them extreme loyalty. Also, a request for information that goes badly can penalize future reaction rolls. With interrogation, you can just keep asking and asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdrolion
do reaction roll modifiers apply to interrogation, or does it assume the guy doesn't like you to begin with, so those don't matter?
The latter, I believe. With the exception that some reaction modifiers apply to Intimidation rolls, and a successful Intimidation roll can give you a bonus to Interrogation via the bonus from "threats of violence".
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:25 AM   #13
Captain Joy
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

Here is how I use Interrogation. It is not RAW and was roundly rejected by the forum when I first introduced it.

Interrogation
IQ/Average
Defaults: IQ-5, Intimidation-3, or Psychology-4

This house rule allows users of Interrogation to make their own rolls when using that skill. This house rule removes the Interrogation skill's lie detecting ability.

This is getting a person to talk about something through mental and psychological persuasion. E.g. threatening to pursue perjury charges, offering amnesty to turn states evidence (your threats and offers need not be genuine), getting them to talk about something tangentially related so they slip up and reveal what you’re really after, etc. When they talk, they may or may mot be telling the truth. Interrogation Skill assumes the individual being questioned has a compelling reason to keep information from you. If getting the information is merely a matter of overcoming antisocial behavior, then a simple Influence Roll [p. B359] or Requests for Information [p. B560] will suffice.

A successful Interrogation roll gets someone to open up about a topic you’re interested in. The person being interrogated gets a chance to defend using their Will. If the victim makes their Will roll by more than you made your Interrogation roll, then they tell a believable lie; otherwise, they tell the truth. Since you won’t know the results of their Will roll, you won’t know for sure which. (For that, use Detect Lies.) An unsuccessful Interrogation roll means the victim doesn’t talk or doesn’t reveal anything new. A critical failure means you give up or the person you're interrogating clams up.

Interrogation vs Will Contests
Code:
                             Will Roll Succeeds By More  Will Roll Succeeds By Less or Fails
Interrogation Roll Succeeds  Victim lies                 Victim reveals the truth
Interrogation Roll Fails     Victim reveals nothing new  Victim reveals nothing new
Each use of Interrogation skill requires 5 minutes and effectively answers one question.

Since the Interrogation Skill assumes that the subject of an Interrogation will not simply get up and leave, a good reaction might first be required to get them to stick around. In that case, various influence skills can come in handy.

Interrogation and Fast-Talk [p. B195]: Fast-Talk is generally used as an Influence Roll [p. B359] whenever you’d prefer that to a Reaction Roll [p. B494]. As such, it can not be used as a substitute for Interrogation skill during an interrogation [p. B562]. It can, however, trick someone into talking so that you can then use Interrogation Skill on them. Of course, Fast Talk can be used as a Requests for Information [p. B560] when providing you the information poses no problems for the NPC.

Interrogation and Intimidation [p. B202]: Intimidation is generally used as an Influence Roll [p. B359] whenever you’d prefer that to a Reaction Roll [p. B494]. Interrogation defaults to Intimidation-3, so Intimidation can be used (at a -3) instead of Interrogation when appropriate. Intimidation can also be used to scare someone into staying put, so you can use then use Interrogation Skill properly.

Interrogation and Influence Rolls or Reaction Rolls for Requests for Information [p. B562]: Reaction Rolls [p. B494] can not be substituted for Interrogation skill during an interrogation [p. B562], and hence, neither can Influence Rolls (unless they can be used at a default for Interrogation).

Modifiers: see p. B202

Example 1: When You Also Have Detect Lies
You have Detect Lies at 13 and Interrogation at 14. You want to know if he stole the candy bar; he’s in the mood to talk to strangers. After 5 minutes of questioning, you roll against your Interrogation skill. If you succeed, you got him talking about the candy bar, but he gets a Will roll. If he makes his Will roll by more than you made your Interrogation roll, his conversation indicates he didn’t steal the candy bar; otherwise, something in his conversation indicates he did steal the candy bar, e.g. there are too many inconsistencies, he makes Freudian slip, he mentions something that he’d know only if he stole the candy bar, etc. Whatever he ends up saying, you could use Detect Lies to try and determine his veracity.

Example 2: When You Don’t Have Detect Lies
You’re a defense lawyer with Interrogation skill at 15; witness for the prosecution has Will at 10. You know the witness just lied under oath. You intend to “break her under the cross’”. You roll against your Interrogation skill. If you succeed, the witness elaborates, but she gets a Will roll. If she makes her roll by more, then she persists in her lie; otherwise she caves in or slips up, revealing the truth. Depending on the actual rolls, she might let slip a slight discrepancy or be reduced to a defeated blubbering wreck.

Last edited by Captain Joy; 01-21-2010 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:02 AM   #14
Sdrolion
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

So basically...it sounds like general consensus is that Interrogation is used to pull out information when other methods aren't going to work. So, you use it if, for instance, Intimidation fails, or Diplomacy fails, etc--if you're able to put the subject in an interrogation, you can get the answers even if he doesn't want to tell you. This might be because during the conversation he slipped up, it might be because you "broke" him by threats or torture, etc. Because it doesn't matter if the guy likes you or not, generally reaction roll modifiers don't apply.

I think that makes sense...basically, if the big brute on your team is able to just slam the guy up against a wall and yell at him a bit and he cracks, you don't need interrogation. But if the guy holds fast despite that, you drag him in a dark room and have this guy chat with him for a while. You don't go right to interrogation. And, if the guy's fearless or something, interrogation might still give results where Intimidation would fail.

I wasn't aware Interrogation had a lie detecting ability, though...are you referring to this? "If you win, you get a truthful answer. If you tie or lose, the victim remains silent or lies. If you lose by more than five points, he tells you a good, believable lie!" I always thought that just affected what the GM had the target do, but you still had to use Detect Lies to verify truth or lie (like Cap'n Joy's example, to an extent).
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:17 AM   #15
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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Originally Posted by davidtmoore View Post
I mean, a successful influence roll improves the initial Reaction roll result one category (from Neutral to Good, for example), while a failed roll might not alter it all, a critical fail might drop it one category and a critical success might raise it two categories.

I think that's how it works; as I say, it's been a long while since I read the reaction rules, as I tend to play much faster and looser than that with NPC reactions.
When I discussed this with Kromm, he said explicitly that this is false. You either roll reaction OR attempt influence. You don't get to do both, except with Diplomacy skill, which is called out in the rules as a special case. And influence does not necessarily improve on a reaction roll; if you got a Very Good reaction, and using Diplomacy gets you a success, that's still only a Good reaction, not an Excellent one.

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Old 01-21-2010, 11:19 AM   #16
Captain Joy
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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Originally Posted by Sdrolion View Post
I wasn't aware Interrogation had a lie detecting ability, though...are you referring to this? "If you win, you get a truthful answer. If you tie or lose, the victim remains silent or lies. If you lose by more than five points, he tells you a good, believable lie!" I always thought that just affected what the GM had the target do, but you still had to use Detect Lies to verify truth or lie (like Cap'n Joy's example, to an extent).
I stand corrected.

As part of my house rule, I let my players make their own Interrogation rolls. This gives them some (incomplete) knowledge with which to decide if they are being lied to. I handle the Detect Lies skill in a similar way. I.e. on a good roll (that they get to make) they can be fairly confident of their information--but never 100% positive.

Last edited by Captain Joy; 01-21-2010 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:22 AM   #17
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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Originally Posted by Sdrolion View Post
I think I'm generally clear on the reaction vs. influence question, then. I'm still kind of up in the air on Interrogation. It just seems like Interrogation is kind of just a combination in one roll of Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, and Intimidation that's only really usable if you've got the guy captive. Which is nice, on the one hand...but on the other, it seems like you could still use Intimidation, etc., even if you have a prisoner, right? And again, it kind of seems like you should still have to use Diplomacy to "buddy up" to the guy, Fast-Talk or Acting to "trick" him during interrogation, or Intimidation to make threats...so I'm not sure how kosher Interrogation is, given all that. Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding that one?
My guess would be that if you've got somebody as a prisoner, he's going to take it as a hostile situation, and any attempt to use Fast-Talk or Sex Appeal is going to have big penalty to effective skill. Intimidation is more of a borderline case, to be sure. But note that Interrogation defaults to Intimidation-3; that is, if you try to use generic Intimidation skill to get information out of someone, your skill is at -3 if you've taken him into custody, perhaps because Intimidation is more a "blunt instrument" approach.

Interrogation could also be the basis for techniques, like the classic tough cop/soft cop.

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Old 01-21-2010, 11:28 AM   #18
Captain Joy
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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...if you got a Very Good reaction, and using Diplomacy gets you a success, that's still only a Good reaction, not an Excellent one.
You mean "that's still only a Very Good reaction, not an Excellent one." Right?

From B187: "Diplomacy never gives a worse result than if you had tried an ordinary reaction roll." In practice, the way I run it, I let the player roll his Diplomacy and I make a generic reaction roll. If they make their Diplomacy roll, then I give them the better of a Good reaction or what I rolled. If they fail their Diplomacy roll, then I go with my roll.

Last edited by Captain Joy; 01-21-2010 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:34 AM   #19
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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Originally Posted by Sdrolion View Post
I wasn't aware Interrogation had a lie detecting ability
It doesn't, as such. As you note, though, there's a range of responses that don't require any skill to note as a lie. The way I run it is that I roll all Interrogation rolls for the players (to prevent metagaming), and the PCs also get Detect Lies rolls for each question. If the Interrogation roll succeeds, I tell them the the victim seems to be telling the truth. If it fails by 5 or less, I tell them that the victim tells an obvious lie ("Where were you last night?" "I was at my grandma's place, helping her bake cookies!"). If it fails by 5 or more, then the Detect Lies becomes relevant - if it succeeds, they realize the guy is lying, if they fail, they think he's telling the truth.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:42 AM   #20
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Influence Skills and Interrogation

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
You mean "that's still only a Very Good reaction, not an Excellent one." Right?

From B187: "Diplomacy never gives a worse result than if you had tried an ordinary reaction roll." In practice, the way I run it, is I let the player roll his Diplomacy and I make a generic reaction roll. If they make their Diplomacy roll, then I give them the better of a Good reaction or what I rolled. If they fail their Diplomacy roll, then I go with my roll.
Yes and no. I mean that the Diplomacy roll itself produces a Good reaction. But per the RAW, you don't use the Good reaction, but use the Very Good reaction from the reaction roll, as you say.

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