Executing a Stop Thrust, Move or not?

[Ultraviolet]

To performa Stop Thrust you need to make a Wait action and specify what you do when. Usually this involved waiting for a charging target to enter your reach.

The Wait manoeuvre specifies that you can perform an Attack once the criteria is met. Or an All-Out if you haven't defended. Or a Committed Attack one assumes.

But does this allow a Step? Or the double step for the Committed? Or the half (forward) move for an All-Out?

Also, do you need a longer weapon then the opponent for this to work? Or just equally as long?

I'm thinking the guy with the Shortsword versus a Greatsword. Shortwsord opts to Wait and once the Greatsword steps into reach 2, he makes a setp and attack at reach 1?

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

I'm thinking the guy with the Shortsword versus a Greatsword. Shortwsord opts to Wait and once the Greatsword steps into reach 2, he makes a setp and attack at reach 1?

I don't have my books with me, but I think what you suggest here is a classic example of a correct use of the Wait Maneuver.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

Also, do you need a longer weapon then the opponent for this to work? Or just equally as long?

Weapon length does not matter. All that matters is whether the target has come within the reach of your weapon or within the reach of your weapon with appropriate allowed Step manuvers as defined for the Wait option.

Now if a guy with a 3 hex reach weapon is poking at you and you have a 1 hex weapon and do not have suffiecent movement to close as part of the wait than tough. Otherwise you get to move/thrust before the player moving in for the attack...the Held Wait overrides!!

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

But does this allow a Step? Or the double step for the Committed? Or the half (forward) move for an All-Out?

Have you checked the Movement line in the description of the Wait maneuver? Each maneuver has a Movement and a Defenses line in the Basic Set. Very handy.

In this case:

Originally Posted by Basic Set page 366

Movement: None until your Wait is triggered. At that point, you may move as allowed by the maneuver you specified (Attack, Feint, All-Out Attack, or Ready).

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

The Wait manoeuvre specifies that you can perform an Attack once the criteria is met. Or an All-Out if you haven't defended. Or a Committed Attack one assumes.

Technically, I don't think Wait says it can be used to make a committed or defensive attack. Even if I'm right about that, though, I see no reason not to allow it.

[Gnomasz]

For a regular Wait, it's like others said.

For a Stop Thrust, however, you must brace your weapon, so no movement is allowed, IMHO. Also, you attack first "if you have the longer reach" - what does matter is the reach (length) of your weapon, not your ability to reach your foe with movement. Still, bonus damage can be worth those drawbacks.

So, when you have shortsword versus greatsword, take regular Wait, not Stop Thrust, unless you're confident with your active defenses.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Gnomasz

Still, bonus damage can be worth those drawbacks.

Meh! Under 3E when stop thrust was <conditions fufilled> you hit you do MAX damage it was worth it...now the +1 pt per 2 hexes of movement...not so much. The other 3e to 4e changes I do not have a big problem with...but I dislikes that one. YMMV...

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Witchking

Meh! Under 3E when stop thrust was <conditions fufilled> you hit you do MAX damage it was worth it...now the +1 pt per 2 hexes of movement...not so much. The other 3e to 4e changes I do not have a big problem with...but I dislikes that one. YMMV...

"Max damage" for a thrust is only a max bonus of 5 for most situations (where you have 1d6 of thrust damage. And on average it's only 2-3 more damage.

Most charging people move at least 4y giving you the same +2 dam (and make you max dam higher).
And against cavalry, the place where the tactic was used a lot historically, you easily get +5 or even +8 damage!

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Maz

on average

"on average" reminds me of the Spartan "If".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta

Even during its decline, Sparta never forgot its claims on being the "defender of Hellenism" and its Laconic wit. An anecdote has it that when Philip II sent a message to Sparta saying "If I enter Laconia, I will raze Sparta", the Spartans responded with the single, terse reply: "If."

[hal]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Technically, I don't think Wait says it can be used to make a committed or defensive attack. Even if I'm right about that, though, I see no reason not to allow it.

Martial Arts 108 specifies the following:

"The new maneuvers Committed Attack (pp. 99-100) and Defensive Attack (p. 100) are both valid responses. If you choose Committed Attack, you must specify in advance whether it will be Determined or Strong."