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Old 04-18-2013, 12:18 PM   #31
sir_pudding
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by zazen View Post
The way I handle counterattack is, you necessarily have to wait before it.

No such thing as attacking, then, after you parry an attack, immediately counter-attacking.

You have to wait, then parry, and counter-attack - but the counter-attack cannot be parried, only dodged or blocked.
That's not the way the Counterattack technique works. Which is what is being discussed here.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
I don't. I don't see how those say I can't use a trigger of "I will Parry the next guy who attacks me, and if my Parry succeeds I'll attack him back." Maybe I'm just being obtuse.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog View Post
I don't. I don't see how those say I can't use a trigger of "I will Parry the next guy who attacks me, and if my Parry succeeds I'll attack him back." Maybe I'm just being obtuse.
Yeah. "I successfully Parry" seems like a valid triggering condition to me. I also don't see how this is all that much of an abuse either. It requires that you risk being hit, and that you've invested six points in Counterattack.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog View Post
I don't. I don't see how those say I can't use a trigger of "I will Parry the next guy who attacks me, and if my Parry succeeds I'll attack him back." Maybe I'm just being obtuse.
Well, Word of Kromm in that thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Waits are always in response to specific external actions by someone else
Which 'I parry' would not in fact be.

I would not follow that bit of Word of Kromm, but it is there.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:51 PM   #35
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Which 'I parry' would not in fact be.
Okay, "I am attacked, and it either hits or misses". It's pretty quibbling, IMO.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:57 PM   #36
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Well, Word of Kromm in that thread:

Which 'I parry' would not in fact be.
Eh, I think that's really splitting hairs too finely. I'll wait on something more definitive.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Well, Word of Kromm in that thread:

Which 'I parry' would not in fact be.
"I Counterattack if his attack leaves me an opening" fits the requirement of "Waits are always in response to specific external actions by someone else". And anyways, Word of Krom doesn't say that you can't do it; WoK says that you can't do it if no one is watching. If there is a 3rd party in the combat, you most certainly can do a Wait-Counterstrike-Attack sequence, as long as there is a 3rd party who could have jumped into the sequence, regardless of whether or not that character did jump into the sequence.

And that, my friends, is why heroes have slow, fat sidekicks. Pancho not only makes Cisco look better by comparison; he actually makes Cisco a better fighter just by standing there being useless until Cisco disposes of the Bad Guy.

Cisco: Wait
BG: Attack, which Cisco Parries
Cisco: Counterattack, which Hits
Pancho: Drops gun
Cisco: Attacks, which Hits
BG: Slumps in the saddle in shame, or possibly blood loss.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Tuk the Weekah View Post
If there is a 3rd party in the combat, you most certainly can do a Wait-Counterstrike-Attack sequence, as long as there is a 3rd party who could have jumped into the sequence, regardless of whether or not that character did jump into the sequence.
I hope that's not true, because it's somewhat silly and hair-splitting.

Look, if A attacks B, and B parries and counterattacks, A might still have things to do on his turn - even if only a free actions like dropping a weapon, fast drawing, speaking, etc.

I could see this:

A waits with the parry-and-Counterattack trigger.
B attacks. A lets him, parries, Counterattacks.
B Parries.
B finishes his turn (free actions, more movement, etc.)
A has his next turn.

Is that sequence impossible in some way I'm not seeing? I'm not at home, and I don't have my books to check this stuff, but that's how I'd run it if a player asked me to right now. And I'm not seeing the abuse, just the risk of trying to hang a Wait on being attacked and defending and then successfully Counterattacking.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog View Post
I hope that's not true, because it's somewhat silly and hair-splitting.

Look, if A attacks B, and B parries and counterattacks, A might still have things to do on his turn - even if only a free actions like dropping a weapon, fast drawing, speaking, etc.

I could see this:

A waits with the parry-and-Counterattack trigger.
B attacks. A lets him, parries, Counterattacks.
B Parries.
B finishes his turn (free actions, more movement, etc.)
A has his next turn.

Is that sequence impossible in some way I'm not seeing? I'm not at home, and I don't have my books to check this stuff, but that's how I'd run it if a player asked me to right now. And I'm not seeing the abuse, just the risk of trying to hang a Wait on being attacked and defending and then successfully Counterattacking.
Kromm was pretty definite in the linked thread on both negativity about 'wait until the opponent's move is done, then hit them' in a strictly 2-character conflict, and on it being doable if there were other people going between the foe and your next turn.

I don't agree with it, but I don't think there's any other way to read that thread.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: wait and counterattack

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Kromm was pretty definite in the linked thread on both negativity about 'wait until the opponent's move is done, then hit them' in a strictly 2-character conflict, and on it being doable if there were other people going between the foe and your next turn.
I'm saying I'm not even seeing how the opponent is really done. Or that it matters if he is.

I'd love to see a specific ruling on defense-triggered Waits. Until then, my only concern would be, if you allow it, does broken stuff happen? I'm drawing a blank on any.
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