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Old 09-12-2018, 10:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: Deed of Paksenarrion conversion?

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Originally Posted by Michael Cule View Post
It's true that the mages are just sort of there: the author hasn't ever bothered to detail the life of the modern wizards who don't think they are blessed by the gods but just want to pay the mortgage.
From what I recall, they get a job with a noble or mercenary company providing magical advice and off-battlefield support (mostly healing if you're with a merc company), and that they charge hard cash for anything significant (potions, and such).
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: Deed of Paksenarrion conversion?

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From what I recall, they get a job with a noble or mercenary company providing magical advice and off-battlefield support (mostly healing if you're with a merc company), and that they charge hard cash for anything significant (potions, and such).
True but that makes them specialists for hire not player-characters.

The author doesn't care as much for the inner life of the magical practitioner as she does for the inner life of the military and religious folk. (And especially the military/religious folk.)

Her one extended look at a mage is Luap in LIAR'S OATH and he ends up just short of damning himself for all eternity. Not a good look.
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:06 AM   #13
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Default Re: Deed of Paksenarrion conversion?

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Her one extended look at a mage is Luap in LIAR'S OATH and he ends up just short of damning himself for all eternity. Not a good look.
Well Doren being a Mageborn gets some first person perspective in Paladins Legacy books, though it could be argued she end up a Falk's Paladin
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Old 09-27-2018, 07:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: Deed of Paksenarrion conversion?

But I sure the hell wouldn't want to live in Finthan and Saiya is barely any better. Gird's code would be hell to live under especially give how bigoted most of the Marshales are
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Old 09-29-2018, 12:39 PM   #15
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But I sure the hell wouldn't want to live in Finthan and Saiya is barely any better. Gird's code would be hell to live under especially give how bigoted most of the Marshales are
I'm not sure about that.

If you want a quiet life and aren't a mage or a major merchant then I think you would be fine.

Gird's code as written works fine for a nation of small farming communities. How a nation with nobility manages to follow it I have absolutely no idea.
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Old 09-30-2018, 05:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: Deed of Paksenarrion conversion?

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If you want a quiet life and aren't a mage or a major merchant then I think you would be fine.
Are anything else other than 99% "Normal" and thing different in the black and white no shades of grey out look not acceptable.
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Old 09-30-2018, 06:52 AM   #17
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Are anything else other than 99% "Normal" and thing different in the black and white no shades of grey out look not acceptable.
It's a society that was formed from people who had been crapped upon by the extraordinarily talented and extraordinarily wealthy for generations. They aren't keen on giving people the full right to exercise their powers and exploit their opportunities.

This always causes tensions. They probably need an outlet for the extraordinary people who pop up in their midst from time to time and that would be the people who go elsewhere, join mercenary companies, become paladins and other sorts of heroes.

Moon's other books are full of people who are aristocratic, privileged or otherwise special so she isn't immune to the attractions of that point of view.

I can see people thinking that living in the Girdish lands is rather like spending an eternity of wet Sundays in Aberystwyth but we also see the heroic reaction of their commonality and their sense of duty to mutual self-protection.
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:49 PM   #18
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IIRC, she said that the village of Hommlet in the Temple of Elemental Evil wasn't a source for her.
If you read the section and have a map of Hommlet ... well this time the glove fits.

However it just one of many different sections in the three novels occupying the 2nd quarter of the 2nd novel.
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Deed of Paksenarrion conversion?

Paksenarrion world get greatly expanded in the five book follow up series, Paladin's Legacy.

As for magic there are three kinds, divine clerical magic, wizard magic that has to be studied, and the innate magic of mages. The known details are from the point of view of the main characters. So we only know details about clerical and mage magic because there were PoV characters with those abilities.

The closest we come to any type of definitive explanation are scenes like Paks Paladin Training Class. We see from her point of view what she she is being taught.

Aside from Religious and culture strife, a big themes is an ongoing conflict between mages and non-mages. Those who are born with magical ability and those who are not.

Where Elizabeth Moon is strong at is characterization. To me the characters come off as real people. In this case people living in a vaguely D&Dish world. I am a major fan of her work and it heavily influenced how I roleplay people in my Majestic Wilderlands Campaign.

As for it's suitability for roleplaying campaign. It consistent and well done from what we know. And that the problem, like I talked about above we only know what the PoV characters know.

I recommend reading all the available books to get a sense of the setting. The only one that can be considered optional is Liar's Oath. Although it recounts the end of Gird's days from a different perspective and that is interesting and useful to know. Liar's Oath wrap up doesn't really occur until Paladin's Legacy when the context of it opening scene is told.
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:04 PM   #20
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Gird's code as written works fine for a nation of small farming communities. How a nation with nobility manages to follow it I have absolutely no idea.
I imagine much like how Christianity, Monks, Fighting Orders, and Nobles co-existed in our history. That the impression I get from reading about the attitudes of the noble candidate in the Fin Panir sequence. And it gets expanded on in Paladin's Legacy as some of the PoV characters are noble as well.

As for Fintha vs. Tsaia, I always had the impression of that it echoes the Old Swiss Confederacy writ large with a strong religious component. The two are probably based her impression of Greyhawk Veluna (Fintha) vs. Furyondy (Tsaia)

This her description of from her website
http://paksworld.com/places.html

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Fintha. Farthest west of the Eight Kingdoms, Fintha is spread across several tributaries of the Honnorgat and many of its sources. Fintha was once ruled by magelords but is now ruled by the Fellowship of Gird under the Marshal-General. The Code of Gird is the only law in Fintha. Farmers own their own land, and large accumulation of land is discouraged. Magery is forbidden and wizardry viewed with suspicion. Nearly all magelords fled Fintha with Luap. Many Girdish granges dot the countryside, each supported primarily by local inhabitants. All able-bodied adults are expected to belong to a grange and all youths are trained in basic fighting skills. Capital is Fin Panir, where the Marshal-General is headquartered, where the Knights of Gird and paladin-candidates are trained. Most of the action in Surrender None was confined to Fintha, though some was in western Tsaia. Farthest west of the Eight Kingdoms, Fintha is spread across several tributaries of the Honnorgat and many of its sources. Fintha was once ruled by magelords but is now ruled by the Fellowship of Gird under the Marshal-General. The Code of Gird is the only law in Fintha. Farmers own their own land, and large accumulation of land is discouraged. Magery is forbidden and wizardry viewed with suspicion. Nearly all magelords fled Fintha with Luap. Many Girdish granges dot the countryside, each supported primarily by local inhabitants. All able-bodied adults are expected to belong to a grange and all youths are trained in basic fighting skills. Capital is Fin Panir, where the Marshal-General is headquartered, where the Knights of Gird and paladin-candidates are trained. Most of the action in Surrender None was confined to Fintha, though some was in western Tsaia.

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