[RPM] Mind Control type spells

[ronalmb]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Keep in mind that it can slow down the game a LOT if you have to total what something's CP value is. It's not going to be possible on some monsters that have been published lately because the company line is "Give it stats, but don't give it a value." It's easier for us authors this way and I wouldn't want to go back to the old way - too time consuming. That said, a 10% chunk is...going to make mind control spells near impossible at high levels and very difficult at low levels. A 100 CP sapient critter is going to add +30 energy (10 x 3 for a Greater effect) and that's just to get a cop or EMT to do what you want. Going with that model it's mostly animals that are going to be easily controlled and breaking into someone's mind is gonna be hard.

Very good observation, and why I came here before going forward -- the summoning example looks to be where i'll go, although ill still need to know the CP of something. Fortunately, I tend to do that with the critters i create. And yes, its oh so slow, lol

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by ronalmb

Very good observation, and why I came here before going forward -- the summoning example looks to be where i'll go, although ill still need to know the CP of something. Fortunately, I tend to do that with the critters i create. And yes, its oh so slow, lol

I personally don't bother. It just takes up too much time I could be using elsewhere to deepen the setting. In the past I've used the following method to determine a "rough" CP scale to use with the Summoning modifier:

• Mook (25%)
• Moderate (50%)
• Tough (75%)
• Worthy/Lieutenant (100%)
• Boss (150% or more)

Then I figure how hard they are going to be on the players and go from there. That way it doesn't slow down play or require me to calculate the average CP of a beasty (which isn't HARD, but can be time-consuming).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

As for Dragon vs. Sylph (or whatever), what you may be missing is the fact that the Dragon is going to have a huge roll to resist (high Will/HT, probably Magic Resistance)

If this is a thing in your setting, you probably also want the rules from Powers for SM and resistance to Afflictions, or maybe require that the target weight modifiers also be used, or otherwise somehow take the dragon's size into account.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If this is a thing in your setting, you probably also want the rules from Powers for SM and resistance to Afflictions, or maybe require that the target weight modifiers also be used, or otherwise somehow take the dragon's size into account.

Weight is only ever used for physical transformations - no mental effects. SM is almost completely ignored in RPM and a target's weight is used instead. I personally think Mind Control type spells are near useless for the cost, it's a straight up hit/miss/sink my battleship scenario. I like using stunning or the like if I'm going with a cheap Path of Mind spell. Or even a command-type spell.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Weight is only ever used for physical transformations - no mental effects. SM is almost completely ignored in RPM and a target's weight is used instead.

Yes, but the OP wants there to be an in-game reason why it's harder to control a dragon because presumably dragons are big and scary. So that appears to be a thing in that world.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, but the OP wants there to be an in-game reason why it's harder to control a dragon because presumably dragons are big and scary. So that appears to be a thing in that world.

Right...but I still wouldn't do it. It's of course up to ronalmb - but I would never require weight to be factored into purely mental effects or use SM as a bonus like that. That's double-dipping. It does occur to me that you could require a Greater Control Body + Greater Control Mind to fully control a being, in such a case you would use Subject Weight.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Right...but I still wouldn't do it. It's of course up to ronalmb - but I would never require weight to be factored into purely mental effects or use SM as a bonus like that. That's double-dipping. It does occur to me that you could require a Greater Control Body + Greater Control Mind to fully control a being, in such a case you would use Subject Weight.

Even if you threw a Control Body effect on there, I think it'd be stretching things a lot to say that the spell was producing "a physical change." Really, if you want "spells against dragons" to cost more, the simplest way (in my mind) is to make it a setting feature that dragons are unique creatures that straddle the line between Living Creature and Spirit Being, and require that all spells to affect them use a Path of Spirit effect in addition to the logical Path of Body or Mind effect.

For example, a spell to control a sylph's mind might be Greater Control Spirit. But the same spell to control a dragon's mind would then be Greater Control Mind + Greater Control Spirit. That's a huge difference in energy cost and a not-insignificant difference in difficulty (as you'd be rolling against the lesser Path of Mind or Spirit).

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by PK

Even if you threw a Control Body effect on there, I think it'd be stretching things a lot to say that the spell was producing "a physical change." Really, if you want "spells against dragons" to cost more, the simplest way (in my mind) is to make it a setting feature that dragons are unique creatures that straddle the line between Living Creature and Spirit Being, and require that all spells to affect them use a Path of Spirit effect in addition to the logical Path of Body or Mind effect.

For example, a spell to control a sylph's mind might be Greater Control Spirit. But the same spell to control a dragon's mind would then be Greater Control Mind + Greater Control Spirit. That's a huge difference in energy cost and a not-insignificant difference in difficulty (as you'd be rolling against the lesser Path of Mind or Spirit).

Hmmm. Interesting say I.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, but the OP wants there to be an in-game reason why it's harder to control a dragon because presumably dragons are big and scary. So that appears to be a thing in that world.

Dragons have very high Will, which means you need Bestows a Penalty, dragons have Magic Resistance, or, most likely, both.

[ronalmb]

Originally Posted by ronalmb

Dragons do (or should) have a tremendous amount of Will/Resistance.. and probably wasn't an ideal example in this situation. A Tyrannosaurus Rex, on the otherhand, probably has a nice high CP value, and probably doesn't have the same mental resistances that a dragon has, and would have been much more suitable to the example.

I'll repeat this part of a later post of mine, because I'm thinking people are getting caught up on the dragon part of the post. I'd have asked the same question if we were talking about mind controlling a shop keeper versus a 60 foot tall talking purple gorilla.

But, it's moot. I found the answers given here very useful and i've rethought my original thinking.