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Old 07-23-2014, 08:15 AM   #1
ronalmb
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default [RPM] Mind Control type spells

Hello, yet another RPM related question.. Even I'm getting tired of me asking so many questions!

Three spells related to Mind Control (Bind Sylph - binds a sylph to your command for duration of spell) and (Bind Troll - binds a troll to your command) and (Bind Dragon - binds a dragon to your command).

How would one build spells like this in RPM? I wanted to use Add a Trait (Mind Control, accessibility: Sylphs only, -80%) but realize quite quickly that these three spells would all have the same base cost before greater/lesser modifiers...

I could easily say the Dragon is a Greater Control Mind.. and that would add some variance in price... but it still leaves the troll costing the same as the sylph or the dragon and I know I'm not thinking things through correctly.

How does everyone else handle spells that might control or bind a specific type of creature over just a one-mind-control-spell-fits-all approach? Has anyone done it? Should it be done?

Thanks for any insight. Everyone has been very helpful to me so far.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:25 AM   #2
Varyon
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

Unsurprisingly, Ghostdancer's got you covered. Scroll down a bit for the Summoned modifier, and apply that to your mind control spells - yes, it's called "Summoned," but it's more like "Create Ally." In all cases, I'd say it's a Greater Control effect, although it's not necessarily going to use Path of Mind - Fay are typically affected by Path of Spirit. Lesser Control Mind/Spirit might make someone like you a bit more or stop a specific action (or make them dislike someone else), but to turn them into a minion is going to be a Greater effect.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:25 AM   #3
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

Mind control in RPM is canonically just a 'Control <Mind/Undead/Spirit>' effect - it doesn't need any of the special modifiers except Duration.

EDIT: The summoned modifier isn't intended for mind control effects, which RPM already handles - it's intended for summoning effects, hence the name and description.

If you want to have differences in the price of the rituals, then you'd want to add a penalty to the creature's Will roll to resist your magic. Lesser/Greater effect also works, though canonically the difference is the degree of control you have rather than the creature type you can control.

Last edited by Langy; 07-23-2014 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:49 AM   #4
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronalmb View Post
Hello, yet another RPM related question.. Even I'm getting tired of me asking so many questions!

Three spells related to Mind Control (Bind Sylph - binds a sylph to your command for duration of spell) and (Bind Troll - binds a troll to your command) and (Bind Dragon - binds a dragon to your command).

How would one build spells like this in RPM? I wanted to use Add a Trait (Mind Control, accessibility: Sylphs only, -80%) but realize quite quickly that these three spells would all have the same base cost before greater/lesser modifiers...

I could easily say the Dragon is a Greater Control Mind.. and that would add some variance in price... but it still leaves the troll costing the same as the sylph or the dragon and I know I'm not thinking things through correctly.

How does everyone else handle spells that might control or bind a specific type of creature over just a one-mind-control-spell-fits-all approach? Has anyone done it? Should it be done?

Thanks for any insight. Everyone has been very helpful to me so far.
As Langy said it's a single Greater Control (Path) effect (typically Path of Mind). As for Dragon vs. Sylph (or whatever), what you may be missing is the fact that the Dragon is going to have a huge roll to resist (high Will/HT, probably Magic Resistance) so the spell is going to be damn difficult to work on them. You can lower their resistance with Bestows a Penalty, (this spell). Buy it as a Narrow category. There is some chicken-egg issues there (how can the target have a penalty vs. the spell if the spell hasn't affected him yet?), but I've used it since before RPM was released with no issues and it gives the experienced (or desperate) caster something to dump energy into in a emergency.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

It occurs to me that if you want to make mind control more expensive for higher point total creatures, maybe use a variant of my Summoned modifier to add a surcharge of energy, but at half the listed cost. Hmmm
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
stance with Bestows a Penalty, (this spell). Buy it as a Narrow category. There is some chicken-egg issues there (how can the target have a penalty vs. the spell if the spell hasn't affected him yet?)
Eh, it's the same as saying "This spell ignores 5 Magic Resistance/Will/HT," but, without having to make up new modifiers.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
It occurs to me that if you want to make mind control more expensive for higher point total creatures, maybe use a variant of my Summoned modifier to add a surcharge of energy, but at half the listed cost. Hmmm
I've always (well, since I saw it) felt Summoned is a "creates an Ally" modifier. Using it on existing creatures is actually more useful than outright summoning a demon or whatever - you don't have to pay quite as much (no need for crossing dimensions, contacting nearby creatures to come to your aid, raising the dead, or whatever), and it transforms an enemy into an ally - it simultaneously gives your side a +1 in numbers and gives the enemy side a -1! Making it still cheaper would probably be a bit too far (although certainly you'd still be paying more than the apparent "Use Greater Control, get a new ally" scheme of RPM).
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:16 AM   #8
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Eh, it's the same as saying "This spell ignores 5 Magic Resistance/Will/HT," but, without having to make up new modifiers.
My thoughts exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I've always (well, since I saw it) felt Summoned is a "creates an Ally" modifier. Using it on existing creatures is actually more useful than outright summoning a demon or whatever - you don't have to pay quite as much (no need for crossing dimensions, contacting nearby creatures to come to your aid, raising the dead, or whatever), and it transforms an enemy into an ally - it simultaneously gives your side a +1 in numbers and gives the enemy side a -1! Making it still cheaper would probably be a bit too far (although certainly you'd still be paying more than the apparent "Use Greater Control, get a new ally" scheme of RPM).
Summoned is just basically a application of Altered Traits using the cost of a Ally with Summonable sans the cost of the Ally. My suggestion is basically adding the Minion enhancement at the +50% level using the same scheme...thus, half the cost of the listed modifier.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:18 AM   #9
ronalmb
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
It occurs to me that if you want to make mind control more expensive for higher point total creatures, maybe use a variant of my Summoned modifier to add a surcharge of energy, but at half the listed cost. Hmmm
I was working on something that added a surcharge equal to 10% of the target's CP total, but wanted to consult here first because the suggestions are always useful.

Dragons do (or should) have a tremendous amount of Will/Resistance.. and probably wasn't an ideal example in this situation. A Tyrannosaurus Rex, on the otherhand, probably has a nice high CP value, and probably doesn't have the same mental resistances that a dragon has, and would have been much more suitable to the example.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:27 AM   #10
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Mind Control type spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronalmb View Post
I was working on something that added a surcharge equal to 10% of the target's CP total, but wanted to consult here first because the suggestions are always useful.

Dragons do (or should) have a tremendous amount of Will/Resistance.. and probably wasn't an ideal example in this situation. A Tyrannosaurus Rex, on the otherhand, probably has a nice high CP value, and probably doesn't have the same mental resistances that a dragon has, and would have been much more suitable to the example.
Keep in mind that it can slow down the game a LOT if you have to total what something's CP value is. It's not going to be possible on some monsters that have been published lately because the company line is "Give it stats, but don't give it a value." It's easier for us authors this way and I wouldn't want to go back to the old way - too time consuming. That said, a 10% chunk is...going to make mind control spells near impossible at high levels and very difficult at low levels. A 100 CP sapient critter is going to add +30 energy (10 x 3 for a Greater effect) and that's just to get a cop or EMT to do what you want. Going with that model it's mostly animals that are going to be easily controlled and breaking into someone's mind is gonna be hard.
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