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Old 09-28-2022, 11:29 AM   #1
sjmdw45
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default Spells: Living vs. LIVING

I noticed that the term "living" is used somewhat inconsistently in DF Spells. Sometimes it's italicized and clearly used specifically to refer to biologically-living creatures per Monster Classes (DF Monsters page 14), excluding undead, demons, constructs, etc. Other times it appears to be used only in contrast to inanimate objects.

For example,

"If an Area spell affects living beings, it affects everyone in its area". (Probably still applies to demons, constructs, etc.)

"If the subject is living or has IQ 6+, the Rule of 16 applies (Exploits, p. 8)." (Clearly excludes low-IQ demons, constructs, etc.)

"[Body Control] spells directly affect the body. Except as noted, they affect only living beings." (Clearly excludes all demons, constructs, etc.)

"[Flesh to Stone] Turns a living subject and all carried gear to stone; see Petrifaction (Exploits, p. 66). Must affect the entire subject." (Not italicized; are demons, undead and constructs intended to be immune? If so, why?)

"Produces a single spot of heat. Used to set fire to a readily flammable object. Has no affect on an item that wouldn’t burn in an ordinary fire, and attempts to cast it on living beings simply fail. Once ignited, the fire burns normally." (Not italicized. Are demons, undead, and constructs supposed to be vulnerable?)

"[Food] spells deal with food and drink. None can turn living beings (or the undead!) directly into food, and they certainly can’t be used in combat." (Not italicized, contrasted with undead only as an afterthought. Probably intended to apply equally to all animate subjects including demons, constructs, etc.)

"[Illusion Disguise] Disguises a living being. You must first create an illusion using Simple, Complex, or Perfect Illusion. Then cast Illusion Disguise to superimpose this in such a way that it covers and moves with the subject. The better the underlying illusion, the better and more permanent the disguise; a Perfect Illusion Disguise fools even the sense of touch. This counts as only a single spell “on.” Concentration is not required." (Not italicized. Probably should work on undead, demons, etc.)

"[Phantom] Like Perfect Illusion (above), but capable of impeding movement and inflicting real damage. The first time any living creature physically contacts a Phantom, roll a Quick Contest between your effective skill with this spell and the being’s IQ; The Rule of 16 (Exploits, p. 8) applies. If you lose or tie, treat the Phantom as a Perfect Illusion for all purposes with respect to that character." (Not italicized. Since illusions affect "anybody with the right senses", I think maybe the lack of italics is significant here, and demons/etc. are affected normally by Phantoms unless they have special traits indicating otherwise.)

"All living beings have auras. Most undead have obviously death-haunted ones – but vampires keep the auras they had in life. Inanimate objects, and constructs like golems, have no aura. Neither do illusions, which makes Aura useful for spotting them." (Not italicized, but clearly specific to living subjects. Demons, divine servitors, elder things, spirits are not directly mentioned; whether they have auras is presumably a DM call.)

"[Trace] May be cast on any object or living being that’s in your presence or the subject of a successful Seeker spell." (Probably intended to work just fine on demons, constructs, etc.)

"[Apportation] Moves physical objects or beings without touching them. Living subjects may resist with ST or Will." (Italicized. Intentional that demons, elder things, etc. get no chance to resist?)

"[Death Vision] Causes a living subject to see a vivid apparition of his or her death!" (Not italicized but probably meant to exclude demons, undead, etc.)

"[Hush] Subject (object or living being) can make no sounds, accidentally or on purpose. Gives +3 to subject’s Stealth skill or -5 to the Hearing roll of anyone listening for the subject, and makes it impossible to cast spells that require speech or song (including any bardic casting!)." (No italics; probably intended to work on unliving beings.)

Does anyone else have a different opinion?
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Old 09-28-2022, 11:35 AM   #2
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Spells: Living vs. LIVING

My take on this is that Living always means 'not an object'.
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Old 09-28-2022, 01:16 PM   #3
sjmdw45
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default Re: Spells: Living vs. LIVING

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
My take on this is that Living always means 'not an object'.
But then why would Monsters page 14 make such a big deal of pointing out which monster classes don't count as living? Bold emhasis mine, italics in original:

"Demon: Evil entities from [netherworld]! Count as extradimensional, so they’re subject to the Banish spell. Also considered magical creatures – and truly evil, where that matters (e.g., for the Protection from Evil spell). Affected by Spirit Empathy. Not living."

"Elder Thing: Hostile creatures from outside all conventional “dimensions” – the Banish spell can’t send them away! Not magical creatures. Not living in any normal sense."

"Elemental: Spirits of air, earth, fire, or water. “Wild” ones inhabit the skies, ground, volcanoes, oceans, etc.; summoned ones are extradimensional, and affected by Banish. Count as magical creatures, and are affected by Spirit Empathy. Not living."

"Faerie: Free-willed, living beings that count as magical creatures."

Last edited by sjmdw45; 09-28-2022 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 09-28-2022, 03:46 PM   #4
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Spells: Living vs. LIVING

Probably just to be unambiguous about what the designer of a particular monster or moster class had in mind and take the mental load off the GM about having to determine if a given monster is "living". A GM is free to change it up, lord knows I have now and then, but if you don't want to then all the footwork has been done for you.

Some things might count as living but not look like it (weird fae), and some things look like they might count as living but aren't (elder things), and it's fun(tm) to surprise players from time to time by changing things up a bit. But, as a general rule a Stewart-test (or Duck test, if it looks like/quacks like/walks like a duck...) of a monster is sufficient for most things if it's not laid out in the text.
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