Talents & Martial Arts

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

But that might not be fair to The Mechanicsburg Mime Brigade! (And if they don't exist, I'll have to suggest it to the Phoglios.). :)

Yeah, it does mean you can't have a Talent for Shaolin-Style Comics Illustration or Kurumashurisurujutsu, which is a major flaw . . .but I think for the rest of the styles, focused on physical combat skills, it might be okay. :)

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

Yeah, it does mean you can't have a Talent for Shaolin-Style Comics Illustration or Kurumashurisurujutsu, which is a major flaw . . .but I think for the rest of the styles, focused on physical combat skills, it might be okay. :)

Since there are a few styles with noncombat skills (Spanish Fencing, some kinds of Karate) I think it might be interesting to include the non-combat skills there. At least it makes it more practical for a character to excel at both Breath Control and Karate. I like the idea of a martial arts master whose manners (Savoir Faire (Dojo)) are as precise and accurate as his fighting skills.

But yes, while a 15 point Talent for all combat skills might be reasonable, including ALL martial arts skills could conceivably include everything.

[DangerousThing]

Martial Arts has a solution for adding a martial arts talent: Wildcard Styles. If a wildcard for all skills in the style is 12 points in all skills in a style is fair (debatable, but I like it) then a talent that covers every skill in a style should cost about this or more if the talent has other advantages.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Martial Arts has a solution for adding a martial arts talent: Wildcard Styles.

If you can get a Wildcard Skill, why would you want a Talent instead? You can't beat Wildcards for simplicity.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Martial Arts has a solution for adding a martial arts talent: Wildcard Styles. If a wildcard for all skills in the style is 12 points in all skills in a style is fair (debatable, but I like it) then a talent that covers every skill in a style should cost about this or more if the talent has other advantages.

The problem is that styles vary a lot in breadth of skill. A wildcard skill in Master of Defense or Knightly Combat/High Medieval is much more useful than the various kinds of Karate. Talents allow tweaking the cost a little more finely. I also don't really like the who massive bonus to techniques element of Martial Arts wild card skills since again value changes a lot with style. I think Fist! or Knight! work better as wildcard skills for fighters.

Talents also allow a little more customization. You could simulate Selmy Barristan with Knight! at a high level - that would be my second preference after Talents. However, it gives all the skills at the same level - it's not really set up to allow a little customization. Also, it does not allow a smooth transition from someone conventionally trained in the style in question. I like the idea of a fighter who starts out trained in a style and then adds Talent to represent his growing mastery of the style. It's trickier to transition from conventional skills to a wild card.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Infornific

But yes, while a 15 point Talent for all combat skills might be reasonable, including ALL martial arts skills could conceivably include everything.

Branching off the above ... Given that a bonus to all DX-based skills is [10/], to all IQ-based skills is [10/], to all skills within a theme is (no more than) [12/]? A bonus to all skills clocking in at [15/] isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Flyndaran]

All DX or IQ skills would top out at 15 per level, not 10.
With IQ! costing only 10 per level, 15 point talents are only reasonable for character themes or if you hit the setting limit on a stat.

Yes, I know some people hate IQ!. But as I have never even approached the suggested disadvantage limit for any character more than 125 points, I don't see the issue.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

I'm not sure you need Cosmic. A learnable talent doesn't have to cost more IMO.

I don't think that's GURPS' intent either.

One could charge a flat single-Perk cost to "open" a learnable Talent, but you only pay that 1 CP, then after that you can buy as many or as few levels as you want, although never more than the RAW max of 4 levels.

The whole Enhancements/Limitations thing to make a Talent learnable does strike me as excessive.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Infornific

That was done mostly in response to the warnings in Power Ups 3 against allowing Talents to be learned. Personally, I think allowing a character to learn a level or two of a Talent is a good way to simulate experience in a field (e.g., Healer for nurses and doctors.)

There is certainly merit in seeing GURPS' Talents as sub-attributes of IQ, DX, or both.

Also, of course, the "threat" from the player to the GM: If you don't let me buy All Weapons Talent for 15 CP/lvl, I'll simply buy up my chracter's DX for 20 CP/lvl instead. Is that what you want me to do?

All Weapons Talent is, if you are able to veiw it objectively, more interesting than full DX is, and therefore in principle valid.

However, I do think there is more merit in raising the cost of DX and IQ to 25/lvl, to modify the balance situation (max-breadth Talents still at 15 CP/lvl), and of course even more merit in recognizing the inherent stupidity of DX and IQ, and therefore replacing them with something less offensive.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by malloyd

A talent for "all martial arts" makes me very nervous. Given that a martial art template might include just about anything, you could arguably claim that bonus to any skill whatsoever - just because there isn't a template in Martial Arts for something that includes Artist (Cartooning) or Mechanics (Light Airplane) doesn't mean there isn't a martial art that does *somewhere*.

Even if those two are absurd examples, there are - or should be - martial arts such as ninjitsu, containing non-combat skills such as Stealth and Climbing, and it's my impression that I'm not the only one who was unhappy to not see parkour included as a "martial art" in the 4E book.

Apart from it not being about combat at all, it makes perfect sense to me to handle it as a martial art in an RPG design context.