Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2020, 01:57 AM   #21
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

A contest of ST to escape HTH will get tricky when there's more than two opponents, but I'm sure there'd be some way to figure it out.

Now getting away when it's 4 on 1 should be pretty impossible, what with it being 8 arms vs 2. Further imagine the 8 arms are centrally coordinated, and equipped with powerful suction cups -- the PC is now dinner.
__________________
"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."
Steve Plambeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 06:40 AM   #22
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

It sounds like the objection to standard pinning rules is that they can lead to a quick victory if you outnumber your opponent and send a capable martial artist into HTH with them. I imagine that's true, but shouldn't it be? If I agree to grapple with someone faster than me while their friend stands by with a spear ready to kill me if I get exposed, that sounds like I made a series of really bad choices in the preceding turns.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 08:16 AM   #23
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

Try a set of fights with a weak high-DX fighter against a strong low-DX one and see who wins most of the time. I've played out numerous HTH fights and the results are more lopsided than standard combats. The UC talents simply throw the already unfair rules into greater imbalance.

The rules also break down for the aggressor when a pin is made. All they can do is pin someone and keep them there for a minimum of two turns; they can't inflict any pain.
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 08:46 AM   #24
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

I agree it leads to highly implausible results when ST doesn't figure in attempts to pin; this just needs to be changed in order to avoid crazy outcomes. I'm not sure I understand the other point, re. successful aggressors not having enough options. Pinning in the game is a way to get a temporary advantage or prevent someone from performing an action you want to stop, or to set them up for someone else's attack when you've mobbed them. It isn't intended to be a way to kill people while they are rendered helpless. I'd always assumed that your basic HTH attack is so abstract that includes things like chokes, arm wrenches, etc.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 08:50 AM   #25
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

TFT is cinematic (we don't haggle over the physics of dragons, gargoyles or octopi), and the movies are full of rather scrawny types using leet martial arts to pin huge foes.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 09:02 AM   #26
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
TFT is cinematic (we don't haggle over the physics of dragons, gargoyles or octopi), and the movies are full of rather scrawny types using leet martial arts to pin huge foes.
Um... I thought this forum was precisely for such haggling.
phiwum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 10:12 AM   #27
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I agree it leads to highly implausible results when ST doesn't figure in attempts to pin; this just needs to be changed in order to avoid crazy outcomes. I'm not sure I understand the other point, re. successful aggressors not having enough options. Pinning in the game is a way to get a temporary advantage or prevent someone from performing an action you want to stop, or to set them up for someone else's attack when you've mobbed them. It isn't intended to be a way to kill people while they are rendered helpless. I'd always assumed that your basic HTH attack is so abstract that includes things like chokes, arm wrenches, etc.
Once you've pinned someone, how do use RAW to go about using the advantage you have over your foe in a one-to-one fight? The only way I can see (and I'm not advocating for this interpretation) is to declare that they are "helpless" and you can thus slaughter them, but that is hardly fun, given that the combatant with the higher DX is almost certain to pin, and thus almost certain to kill their opponent. Having actual rules for limb and head holds is more satisfying, for me.

There's also the issue of slower figures being unable to enter HTH from the front with a faster opponent; anyone who has watched a football game knows that this is wrong. Having rules that allow for this is also more satisfying from my experience.
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 10:41 AM   #28
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

Okay I will write up and send in the Universal quick overrun rules that handle all X attempts to enter Y hex for all values of X and Y, mice, men, wolves, giants, dragons, etc. And see what happens.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 11:34 AM   #29
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

I don't think there is any need to have overrun rules much different from what we have. A slow person should not be able to force HTH combat with a faster one (assuming they are facing and aware of each other). What slower football players are able to do is seize space from a faster person by occupying it, which is something more like a shield rush (at least in terms of its effects). UC experts are already allowed to do this without a shield, but I suppose if you wanted to generalize that ability further you could add some kind of house rule that does the same thing for all combatants.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 11:55 AM   #30
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Octopus vs starting human in HTH

Tackling someone is quite different than bashing into them to try to knock them down. The end result of a successful shield rush is a standing rusher and a prone rushee. The end result of a successful tackle is both combatants on the ground--essentially in HTH.
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
octopus

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.