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Old 03-09-2024, 08:20 PM   #1
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

I'm playing in a PF2 game right now. The group is generally willing to play whatever system the GM wants to run. That's how i ended up in a system I'm not terribly fond of.

So now I've just made it to 4th level and I got a relatively complicated bunch of stuff that I have made selections for relatively purposeful reasons. The only thing left is in the category of "Skill Feats" and i have checked the list multiple times and I am still utterly uninspired.

That might be because none of them would address any of the weaknesses exposed in today's session but levelling up characters in many systems is like filling out a form and I've got this blank line on my form.

If you want details my character is a 4th level Dwarven Barbarian with hp out the wazoo and the "Spirit Instinct" trait. This means he's relatively normal much of the time but when combat starts he is possessed by the warrior spirits of his ancestors and he rages. In game we tend to call it "a visit from crazy grandpa".

So if there's anyone out there with enough PF2 experience to understand my annoying little dilemma I would greatly appreciate some help.
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Old 03-10-2024, 07:33 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
The only thing left is in the category of "Skill Feats" and i have checked the list multiple times and I am still utterly uninspired.
Skill feats improve the things you can do with trained skills, or add extra features to them. Most of them are not super-powerful, and so could be considered uninspiring. On the bright side, you're not going to gimp your character with a wrong choice.

What skills does the character have, and what sorts of things do you want to be able to do in game? Make those better.


A short list that barbarians would (in my mind) stereotypically have, as well as some personal favorites:

General:
Assurance: Similar to the "Take 10" rule, or GURPS' "No Nuisance Rolls" Perk. Lets you automatically succeed at things that are fairly easy for your character's skill. Read it carefully; the text says "10+your proficiency bonus", which is not the same thing as having rolled a 10 on the skill check. ("Proficiency bonus" omits the stat bonus.)

Automatic Knowledge: Depending on your group's game style, Recall Knowledge can be important in combat. A relevant skill lets your character know things about their foes, like weakest save, resistances, immunities, special abilities to watch out for, etc. (This mechanic replaces the classic AD&D 1e technique of players just memorizing the Monster Manual and thus having all 1st level characters know everything there is to know about defeating all dungeon threats.) Normally it costs an action to Recall Knowledge in combat; this feat makes that a free action, so you can do it every round without impeding your damage dealing. Probably not good for raging Barbarians, though.

Medicine:
Battle Medicine: lets you do a single-action in combat heal, once per day per target, including on yourself. This is pretty significant in combat, even at higher levels. Needs medicine skill (starts at DC 15, and you really want to be able to choose the DC 20, 25, ... levels later). I put this one first, out of order, because it really is useful for everyone to have, not just the healbot. You can also use it out of combat (perhaps more common for the raging barbarian, but barbs aren't always enraged).

Acrobatics:
Cat Fall: reduce fall distance / damage
Steady Balance: Eliminate flat-footed / Off Guard penalty on narrow / uneven terrain
Kip Up: Stand up without provoking reactions if the character gets knocked down.

Athletics:
Quick Jump: Jump without the extra prep actions; useful if you want to jump onto / across things in combat.
Powerful Leap: Jump farther
Rapid Mantle: pull yourself up onto ledges, for example after Grabbing an Edge if you slip and fall. Also common for climbers.
Titan Wrestler: There's a fair number of Large+ creatures, so this can be handy if your tactics involve Trip, Grapple, or Shove. Disarm was broken in PF1, but seems less so in PF2. But I haven't seen that used a lot.

Intimidation:
Intimidating Glare: Intimidation has the Verbal trait, which means using that skill action normally requires sharing a language with the target. This feat allows Intimidating just with a look, both more subtle than shouting at them (say, in a back room of a tavern) and more broadly useful. (Even master linguists can't scratch the list of monster languages.)
Group Coercion: Convince the whole gang at once, as it takes quite a while to do them one at a time (especially in combat).

Survival:
Experienced Tracker: Tracking at full speed is the only way to hope to keep up with the bad guys fleeing with the kidnapped princess. (Etc.) Without it, you'll get to their lair eventually, but they'll have time to fulfill their dastardly intents and get ready for you.
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Old 03-10-2024, 10:18 AM   #3
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post

What skills does the character have, and what sorts of things do you want to be able to do in game? Make those better.
Thank you! Some of your choices were omitted from Pathbuilder's list of choices and they were generally the most obviously useful. I will have to look into that.(and I finds I didn't have the prereqs)

My character already has Medicine and the wizard already has Battle Medicine and should probably have his hands slapped for trying to use it. His Medicine score is 2 pts lower than my character's.

Our GM has constantly nagged us about Recall Knowledge checks but we have a thaumaturge who specializes in that and my Barbarian generally has no way to capitalize on the information he provides. "Still no Vulnerability to large slashing weapons? Pity, I'm going to have to go with that anyway.". It seems to work decently even without special Vulnerabilities. I get enough gp to afford that Rune of Striking for my GreatAxe and it's going to work even better. :)

What do you think about Alchemical Crafting? It's the only thing that would address any of yesterday's issues but besides making cheaper Elixers of Life the rest of the Alchemical creations of my level appear grossly non-useful compared to the opposition on the third level of the Abomination Vault adventure. I'm not a great Crafter but our GM has been giving us down time.
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Old 03-10-2024, 07:38 PM   #4
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

I'm personally a little bummed on the crafting rules. Paizo did a really good job making sure they were balanced with other downtime options, which in practice means it costs you just as much to craft an item as it does to buy it. (Opportunity cost, that is; the same downtime could be spent earning income to buy the item.) So, the main advantage of crafting skills is that you can make something (that you have the formula for) even if it's not for sale.

Of course, some characters may not have marketable skills for Earn Income, so their opportunity cost is zero.

Consumables -- so, alchemical elixirs or other potions and scrolls -- are made in batches of four, so those can actually be profitable.

But the crafting rules do seem to be to be largely additional color, rather than a "power" your character has. You can't make a "mechanic" that crafts potions, bombs, and snares and go into combat with just those instead of your base class abilities. They're just extras.

All that said, Alchemy is one of the more practical crafting skills. But note that many non-alchemists do not have proficiency in alchemical bombs -- they're a martial weapon. So, a Barb is in good shape as they start with training in martial weapons. Barbs are also likely to have a good Dex for AC reasons, if secondary to Str, so that helps their ranged attacks as well. But not everyone in the party will be able to start combat by lobbing a grenade at the enemy that the Barb made for them. (Or at least not with any accuracy.) Crafting is also Int-based, which may not be one of your Barb's, uh, strengths. And any crafter needs the attribute bonus to hit those DCs to make the Crafting checks to make stuff. But most characters have enough attribute picks to have a tertiary stat that's not terribad if that's the way you want to go.
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Old 03-10-2024, 07:57 PM   #5
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Crafting is also Int-based, which may not be one of your Barb's, uh, strengths. And any crafter needs the attribute bonus to hit those DCs to make the Crafting checks to make stuff. But most characters have enough attribute picks to have a tertiary stat that's not terribad if that's the way you want to go.
IQ is 10. We used the "picks" chargen so I had to have low scores somewhere. Charisma is 8 so He's no good at Intimidation either.

I wasn't really considering the "mad bomber" role. Last session we played without our Cleric and used up _all_ our Healing potions. I had started with 5 and unless the books we salvaged bring in a lot we won't even break even..

Anyway, I can't choose multiple Feats because my PC isn't trained in Acrobatics and i can't use the Skill Training Feat to become Trained until I raise his IQ to 12.

I'm going to look at down time money making next. It's silly to work a regular job so you can afford to go adventuring butt hat might be where we are.

Thank you very much again.
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Old 03-10-2024, 08:23 PM   #6
Rupert
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Assurance: Similar to the "Take 10" rule, or GURPS' "No Nuisance Rolls" Perk. Lets you automatically succeed at things that are fairly easy for your character's skill. Read it carefully; the text says "10+your proficiency bonus", which is not the same thing as having rolled a 10 on the skill check. ("Proficiency bonus" omits the stat bonus.)
It also removes quite a lot of situational modifiers, for good and ill.

Quote:
Medicine:
Battle Medicine: lets you do a single-action in combat heal, once per day per target, including on yourself. This is pretty significant in combat, even at higher levels. Needs medicine skill (starts at DC 15, and you really want to be able to choose the DC 20, 25, ... levels later). I put this one first, out of order, because it really is useful for everyone to have, not just the healbot. You can also use it out of combat (perhaps more common for the raging barbarian, but barbs aren't always enraged).
A lot of the Medicine feats are useful, even for non-full time medics. Skill Assurance is also very useful here.
Quote:
Intimidation:
Intimidating Glare: Intimidation has the Verbal trait, which means using that skill action normally requires sharing a language with the target. This feat allows Intimidating just with a look, both more subtle than shouting at them (say, in a back room of a tavern) and more broadly useful. (Even master linguists can't scratch the list of monster languages.)
If you have any sort of Charisma bonus (and even if you don't, sometimes) Intimidate is quite useful - you often find yourself with nothing useful to do with your final action, and it can fill that spot.

I found the jumping series of Athletic feats reasonably useful.
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Old 03-10-2024, 08:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

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IQ is 10. We used the "picks" chargen so I had to have low scores somewhere. Charisma is 8 so He's no good at Intimidation either.
PF2 really, really doesn't want you to use any other method, and it's reasonably generous, so it doesn't feel bad using it (unlike some other games, that think that being able to choose you stats is a super-power and so are really stingy).
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Old 03-10-2024, 10:03 PM   #8
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

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PF2 really, really doesn't want you to use any other method, and it's reasonably generous, so it doesn't feel bad using it (unlike some other games, that think that being able to choose you stats is a super-power and so are really stingy).
I appreciate the 18 St, the 16 Con (and 70 hp) and even the 14 Wis has proven useful.

However, the combined intricacy and rigidity of the advancement schemes is starting to get to me. Advancing in 3.5 wasn't necessarily simple but it offered the possibility of getting what you wanted/needed.

For example, the player next to me yesterday said (after I'd hailed my 5th or 6th save v. paralyzation) "Well, Fred will be picking Great Fortitude as his next Feat". I would if it were an option but the effect only seems to appear in PF2 as a Class power.

I'm getting tired of finding a level on _everything_ too.
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Old 03-10-2024, 10:19 PM   #9
Rupert
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
For example, the player next to me yesterday said (after I'd hailed my 5th or 6th save v. paralyzation) "Well, Fred will be picking Great Fortitude as his next Feat". I would if it were an option but the effect only seems to appear in PF2 as a Class power.
Well, there's Canny Acumen, which gives 'Expert' in a given save or in Perception, but Barbarians already have Expert Fortitude, so it's of no use to you.
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Old 03-11-2024, 08:37 AM   #10
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Any Pathfinder 2 gurus out there?

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{Assurance} also removes quite a lot of situational modifiers, for good and ill.
A good point. That's what gives it the "even in the worst circumstances" property mentioned in the fluff text. That could actually be a net benefit if you have more negatives than your positive bonus from the skill's governing attribute, though losing the +4 or +3 stat bonus you probably have in your primary skills generally hurts.

Quote:
A lot of the Medicine feats are useful, even for non-full time medics.
Skill Assurance is also very useful here.
I agree. Continual Recovery lets you heal six times as fast; Ward Medic (at Expert in Medicine) lets you heal the whole party. I left them out just because I was trying for a short list, and it didn't sound like Fred's character was headed toward that dedicated of a healer. Medicine is also likely our group's top choice for Assurance, as Battle Medicine and Treat Wounds (etc) are one place where it's quite valuable to know for a fact that you're going to hit that DC 15 / 20 / 25 when deciding the level of healing to go for.
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