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Old 07-20-2015, 12:54 PM   #21
Flyndaran
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

Dune like personal shields wouldn't work against "low" velocity arrows, if one needs an extra reason for using bows at all.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:13 PM   #22
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Is it still a bow if the power isn't coming entirely from the user? Aesthetically it would lose its "bow coolness", to me at least.
It's hard to say what makes a weapon "cool", but I'd say it's more an issue of a distinct name and a particular look than how it works.

A lot of things that people label cool weapons seem barely usable, if not excellent ways to hurt yourself without touching the enemy, so functionality, let alone how the functionality is produced, clearly isn't always a big factor.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:40 PM   #23
Flyndaran
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

Looks like a (cross)bow seems enough for Wookie fans. But I guess everyone has their own definition for what (cross)bow means.
To me, it's a human powered, elastic, man portable, pointy, cylindrical object flinger.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:45 PM   #24
Flyndaran
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
...
A lot of things that people label cool weapons seem barely usable, if not excellent ways to hurt yourself without touching the enemy, so functionality, let alone how the functionality is produced, clearly isn't always a big factor.
The D&D double swords look hysterical to me, but are beloved by many players. The rule of cool isn't quite everything cool to my view.
I find sleek unadorned anime plate armor incredibly cool, and that was the height of armor technology in the renaissance.
But I also find acrobatic Shaolin Kung fu cool despite it being rather inefficient in a difficulty to defensive effect ratio.

(Punctuation question: should there be a comma before despite in that sentence?)
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Old 07-20-2015, 02:09 PM   #25
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

Really, the high tech equivalent to a bow would be a gun, making all gun and beam weapons Ultra Tech Bows... Needlers especially IMO.

But if you want to maintain Muscle Power at the core, I'd be looking at trick arrows. Tanglers, late ignition rocket tips (gets past the sensors before the rocket fires) Hyperdense, monomolecular, vibro tip options, etc.
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Old 07-20-2015, 02:32 PM   #26
El Ravager31
 
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Is it still a bow if the power isn't coming entirely from the user? Aesthetically it would lose its "bow coolness", to me at least.

If allowing superscience, I agree with getting monowire arrowheads.
Even more superscience may lead to Wookie bowcaster like bows.

Or like I'm sure many others have imagined, a bow that throws tiny light sabers.
I had always thought the Bowcaster was cool because I like crossbows. I was trying to stay away from the new bow basically just being another laser (or any other beam) rifle, so I'm really liking a lot of the ideas people have shared.

Its funny that you mention a bow throwing light sabers because ever since I started trying to "futurize" the bow... Well, lets just say I keep coming back to the (cool at the time) image of Hank the Ranger in the old Saturday morning D&D cartoon. That being said, I'm genuinely appreciative of all the ideas.

I also like how you point out the flaws in the personal shields' shortcomings in defending against an arrow attack.


The armor divider was something I had planned to use when I first started thinking about upgrading the bow, so I'm glad to see several people mention that as well. I was kind of at a loss for how large of a divider to use. I was debating whether the damage should be larger and the divider lower, or the opposite, or somewhere in between. That being said, the suggestions help.

Last edited by El Ravager31; 07-20-2015 at 02:33 PM. Reason: typing error
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Old 07-20-2015, 03:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

Taking cues from weby's excellent post: besides ultra-tech gadget arrows... what kind of sensors are in the setting?

Ugh... originally did a wall o'text so let me try to make it concise. Reasons something like bow & arrows may be preferred weapons:
  • Relative silence
  • payloads
  • best ranged weapon that sensors can't detect
  • people just don't expect it
  • collateral damage is easier to control

If you're in the middle of a war zone where everyone is fully armored up, it probably isn't a great weapon. If you're already inside the enemy fortress... or you're not even in a military or police facility but (for example) inside corporate offices and already past their heavier outer security (guards might be heavily armored inside, but if the outer defenses are worth it then they shouldn't need to be... right?).

Bullets, blasters, laser, sonic weapons, etc. might be dangerous due to collateral damage. Arrows designed for penetration and not inflicting raw damage may thus be the preferred weapon. There may also be the shock value of "primitive" weapons being used, especially if an old fashioned wooden bow and arrows aren't going to show up on sensors (and or can be fashioned from materials available in say a secure domed city style set-up) and no one is that crazy so no one expects it.

Sabotage/distraction are still legitimate uses. Arrows can contain payloads like tiny bombs and weby's examples included both poisons and biological agents. So... a master archer might be able to fire an arrow coated with an airborne pathogen right into a vent system with no one noticing, and if you are allowing an ultra tech bow then it might be fired from what would now be considered rifle range. It doesn't even have to be dangerous toxins or disease; if the arrow is unlikely to be discovered then filling the place with a noxious odor or one that smells like something more dangerous can be an easy way to clear the building.

If you think the arrow won't be found for a week or more (it is ultra tech so do they regularly check the vents for such things?) then just making sure a mundane, typical airborne disease is "going through" the workforce can make infiltration easier. Either because the usual security guards aren't there or because they are so short staffed they had to hire new people... which of course includes the PCs or their people. Imagine an adventure about subtle corporate sabotage; the PCs aren't supposed to kill anyone, they aren't supposed to do anything huge that will get them caught... but maybe sneaking on the roof, finding a relatively straight exhaust port/vent and firing an arrow made of a frozen, foul-smelling liquid that will lower moral, maybe prompt government inspections, etc.

Why yes... yes I am trying to come up with stuff off the top of my head and am too stubborn to admit defeat. =P
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:26 PM   #28
El Ravager31
 
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Taking cues from weby's excellent post: besides ultra-tech gadget arrows... what kind of sensors are in the setting?

Ugh... originally did a wall o'text so let me try to make it concise. Reasons something like bow & arrows may be preferred weapons:
  • Relative silence
  • payloads
  • best ranged weapon that sensors can't detect
  • people just don't expect it
  • collateral damage is easier to control

If you're in the middle of a war zone where everyone is fully armored up, it probably isn't a great weapon. If you're already inside the enemy fortress... or you're not even in a military or police facility but (for example) inside corporate offices and already past their heavier outer security (guards might be heavily armored inside, but if the outer defenses are worth it then they shouldn't need to be... right?).
Its going to change a lot over the campaign, but there will be no heavy combat with heavily armored enemies at first (barring player stupidity... although I have been guilty of that myself in the past).

Its going to be an Infinite Worlds Campaign with the players beginning on "Earth." They will be joining Infinity Patrol and operating as Intelligence/Security members. At some point in the distant future, they may become members of the Special Ops and face off against The Cabal. That's when I expect the heavy armor to really come into play.

They will mainly be operating on worlds that range between Tech Level 10 and 12. I know the main Home Line is written as TL8 but I'm basically creating a new Patrol base on a TL11 world for my campaign purposes. There will be some expeditions to a few slightly lower TL worlds, so that the threat of Centrum and The Cabal can become apparent. Really, I'm kind of thinking about using Technomancer (from 3E) and blaming the Hellstorm on The Cabal. This hopefully shows the threat that they present, and I'm envisioning a showdown taking place on a world with at least TL11. Of course, there will be several steps along the way that lead to all that.

Hopefully, that gives a glimpse into my plans for the campaign at least though.
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:44 PM   #29
weby
 
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

A further note on the warbow and it's use:
It is not meant for a low power and/or serious campaign.

It is meant for the trained warriors in a cinematic campaign where the special background bit like the "elven nobles" are 300 points and in case of the elves about half those points are combat related.

So the "average elven archer" will have weapon master(bow), heroic archer, ST 13+strongbow perk, DX 16, 16-24 points in the bow skill so:
A bow skill of 20-22 thus an one second aiming skill of maybe 30.
Thus they can easily hit targets out to the 1/2d of 450 yards range with a bit of aiming without using the homing/guided effect.
When used by them the bow does 1d+15(10) with the war arrow. Thus doing 1d+7 imp damage though a military cyber suit for an average of 21 injury.
Against a dreadnaught suit you kind of want to fire at the limbs(or an eye if easy enough shot against unsuspecting foe) and even then only do 1d6 on the target(or x4 that for eye)
The primary drawbacks of the weapon compared to more normal weapon are the shooting position and the slow rate of fire and the secondary of being very expensive and using an uncommon skill.
The primary benefit is that it is fun... but there are couple secondary too.. you have a weapon and grenade launcher in one and the weapon is fairly silent.

That is the power level/needed penetration that it is designed for.

An average man(dx 10, st 10, 1 point in bow and no special advantages) firing it against a civilian armored target will find the war arrow kind of overwhelming in effect. After one second of aiming they are at 18-range penalty to hit, at full 3 seconds aiming at 22-range, so you expect to hit at ranges of up to 100 yards.. and against someone unarmored it does 1d+10 imp and civilian armors like the Monocrys Suit do not reduce the damage at all..
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:46 PM   #30
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Default Re: How to go about making an Ultra Tech Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Ugh... originally did a wall o'text so let me try to make it concise. Reasons something like bow & arrows may be preferred weapons:
  • Relative silence
  • payloads
  • best ranged weapon that sensors can't detect
  • people just don't expect it
  • collateral damage is easier to control
The only one of these things you couldn't easily do better with a non-bow design is the surprise value of using something completely ridiculous. And if inflicting shock and bemusement is the goal, dressing your stuff up like a particularly campy Batman villain is probably easier.

Certainly in some circumstances a low-powered, low-profile weapon that can be used as a payload launcher is preferable to a TL-appropriate assault rifle. The problem is that a bow is a particularly ungainly way of filling that role. A compressed-gas gun or linear spring gun could do the same job in a more ergonomic (DX/E) and probably more accurate and powerful form.
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