New Reality Seeds

[adm]

A very good point. Depending on naval developments, Japan may still have Taiwan, but not anywhere China can walk too. For that matter, China may already have all of Siberia that they want, and Japan may be looking more at Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, and the rest of the Western Pacific. In this case, the UK may not have aligned with Japan, if so, Japan may go with the Triple Alliance, and China with the Entente.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Anders

After the Second Opium War, the Chinese government decides that something has to be done. They reorganize the government from the bottom up, including a European-style administration, European-style education, European-style industrialization. Basically the Meiji restoration on steroids.

They actually tried this - look for the Tongzhi Reforms (the Wikipedia article is called Self-Strengthening Movement), and it half way worked - being generally credited with so strengthening the army as to be responsible for the eventual collapse of the Empire into the Warlord era.

Maybe it could have been better implemented.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

LBJ had a fire in the belly for Civil Rights that JFK never had.

In this 1965, while no Voting Rights Act passed yet, civil rights is an issue. JFK/LBJ/Democrats would be weighing how forward to be on it.

Infinity (and Homeline USA) would be involved. Passage of civil rights legislation is something everyone from Homeline would want - unlike older, more retrograde timelines, they could make a difference here. Homeline JFK romantics who would want him to fulfill their dreams (though anyone on Homeline who could remember JFK would be around 80+).

Cabal/magic throws a spanner into everything. Can Infinity keep Homeline lovers of the 'Best & The Brightest' from tipping things to the Cabal - or worse, this timeline's actual Best & Brightest? Don't bet against those who made it to the Moon...

[Astromancer]

Try this idea...

Kaiser-3

In most worlds Frederick III died after ruling less than three months putting the unstable Wilheim II on the throne. In this world Frederick only had a cough. Frederick sadly came to realize his son was unstable and with Bismark's blessing had him put away and removed from the succession.

Frederick, generally dismissed as to mild and non-aggressive, was quietly cunning. He allowed France enough rope to keep on strangling themselves. He had Germany play second fiddle to Britain in such a way as to be indispensable and pretty much in the driver's seat. Russia was shown sympathy in such a way as to keep them busy elsewhere. America was allowed to stay blissfully isolationist. Japan was shown respect and slyly made an ally. And China was shorn of many key provinces in a way that almost seemed like good manners. In short, Frederick got more for Germany than Wilheim tried for, and without upsetting the power balance.

However, all good things... It is now August 1914 and Frederick is dying. His heir Prince Henry, though competent and diplomatic, is childless. Henry's heir is his brother's son August Wilheim is very conservative (his older brothers have been disqualified for various scandals).

Kaiser Henry is said to be ailing, what future awaits?

Basically, a later WWI with a much stronger Germany.

[Astromancer]

Try this one...

Gauleiter-1, 2, and 3

A Gauleiter was a Nazi party official devised as part of reconfiguring the Nazi party into a "State-within-the-State." It was this reconfiguration, which made the SA into an effective private army rather than just a series of wolf packs, that was essential to Hitler's rise to power. Kurt von Schleicher and his aides realized that, in it's weakened state, caused by the Treaty of Versailles, the German army couldn't arrest Hitler and disband the Nazis without causing a Civil War. Hitler was made Chancellor because the Nazis had grown to strong to resist.

Von Schleicher's aides saw three main scenarios coming out of any attempt to arrest Hitler. Each starts in a civil war. The scenarios were 1) a civil war breaks out between the German Army and the Sturmabteilung or SA. Then the Communists become a third front and Poland invades. If it seems odd to you that the Germans would fear Poland, remember, we're talking 1932 here, Germany's army was seriously weak and a Civil war would make things far worse. (Gauleiter-2). 2) Is much like 1) except the USSR invades. Remember, in 1932 Stalin hasn't purged the Red Army, so the Russians would be more dangerous than in WWII. (Gauleiter-1) 3) is like the first two only France invades. (Gauleiter-3

Gauleiter-2 is on Q4, it's a low Manna world with witches, sorcerers, werewolves, Fay, and other supernatural beings. But magic is seen as mere superstition by the general public, and supernatural beings work to keep it that way. The Cabal has the whip hand here. The four way war in Germany is seen as a minor blessing by France, Russia, and Britain, it means Germany will stay down for a very long time. Local year 1933.

Gauleiter-1 is a Q6 world. The Russians have taken Prussia all the way to the Polish Corridor and Danzig is theirs. In the North the Communists are making gains, in the South the Nazis are winning. Everywhere minorities, especially Jews, are being butchered. France and Britain are ordering Russia not to come any further West or there will be war. The USA has elected FDR, but he won't be inaugurated until March 1933, and this is January 1933. Hoover, fearing FDR will take radical steps to reform the economy is seeking a declaration of War against Russia in order to tie FDR's hands and prevent radical change.

Centrum has been covertly aiding Hoover. They feel that a World War in 1933 would prevent the progressive economic post-war period and lead to a far longer period of imperialism. A weaker Germany, Russia, and USA, means a longer lasting British Empire.

Homeline wants to stop this war and preserve the benefits of FDR's presidency. Political fashions in Europe in the 2030's incline the Europeans to seeing FDR as a major force for their good as well. Thus Britain, France, and the EU are on-board for serious intervention. Germany, the USA, India, and China, also see much good in a world with no WWII, or a far lesser one. Russia is using it's security council veto to demand that Russia's needs be respected.

Gauleiter-3 is a Q5 world, 80% Low Manna/18% Normal Manna/2% High Manna. France has conquered Bavaria and most of Southern Germany. The German Army is winning the three way battle in the North. Hitler is dead, but Goring, Goebbels, and Rohm are all alive and very dangerous. There seems to be some possibility that Midwinter Aton is trying to take over this Germany and may be working on "Resurrecting" Hitler! However that would work it's clearly bad.

The Cabal and Homeline are forced to team up here. It seems like something really strange may have entered the arena. Who are the Anunnakku?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this one...

Gauleiter-1, 2, and 3

A Gauleiter was a Nazi party official devised as part of reconfiguring the Nazi party into a "State-within-the-State." It was this reconfiguration, which made the SA into an effective private army rather than just a series of wolf packs, that was essential to Hitler's rise to power. Kurt von Schleicher and his aides realized that, in it's weakened state, caused by the Treaty of Versailles, the German army couldn't arrest Hitler and disband the Nazis without causing a Civil War. Hitler was made Chancellor because the Nazis had grown to strong to resist.

Von Schleicher's aides saw three main scenarios coming out of any attempt to arrest Hitler. Each starts in a civil war. The scenarios were 1) a civil war breaks out between the German Army and the Sturmabteilung or SA. Then the Communists become a third front and Poland invades. If it seems odd to you that the Germans would fear Poland, remember, we're talking 1932 here, Germany's army was seriously weak and a Civil war would make things far worse. (Gauleiter-2). 2) Is much like 1) except the USSR invades. Remember, in 1932 Stalin hasn't purged the Red Army, so the Russians would be more dangerous than in WWII. (Gauleiter-1) 3) is like the first two only France invades. (Gauleiter-3

Gauleiter-2 is on Q4, it's a low Manna world with witches, sorcerers, werewolves, Fay, and other supernatural beings. But magic is seen as mere superstition by the general public, and supernatural beings work to keep it that way. The Cabal has the whip hand here. The four way war in Germany is seen as a minor blessing by France, Russia, and Britain, it means Germany will stay down for a very long time. Local year 1933.

The British would be rather alarmed by the existence of a power vacuum the Communists could exploit. Initially Germany was regarded as a lesser threat than the red menace.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The British would be rather alarmed by the existence of a power vacuum the Communists could exploit. Initially Germany was regarded as a lesser threat than the red menace.

Gauleiter-4 England enters into war with Russia after Russia invades Poland and Germany. Japan, still ready to ally with Britain (Especially if it means territory for Japan) attacks Vladivostok and invades Siberia.

As Chiang Kai-shek was on the outs with both Russia and the Japanese at the time, he used the fact that they kept each other busy to destroy the Chinese Comunists killing both Mao and Zhou Enlai in the process. But otherwise keeping China out of the war.

By February 1935 (the local date) most of the area that was West Germany in Homeline's history is occupied by the Anglo-French forces. The Anglo-Turkish army is marching north from Astrakhan. While southeastern Siberia is held by Japan.

America is neutral and focused on the New Deal. Centrum is well pleased with this Q6 world and hopes to have the Brits keep their empire dominant. Meanwhile it wants the USA to go Socialist because they think that's bad for the USA. An American Cabalist group thinks it's good for the USA and is sneaking in technological innovations with a goal of making America world dominant.

Homeline is just trying to keep the bloodshed down.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by adm

I strongly suspect that this China would go with Germany, remember that the UK and Japan are formal Allies at this point, China wants Korea and Taiwan back, getting parts of Siberia, French Indo-China, and whatever other bits and pieces they can glom onto would be very tempting.

China in this situation sounds like Ottoman Empire during WWI. Both sides tried to get the Turks on their side, but since Britain, France, and Italy had taken Ottoman North Africa, Constantinople (it wasn't renamed Istanbul until Attaturk after WWI) sided with the Germans.

A more together, still Manchu China would want back British and French concessions, as well as Hong Kong & Macau. Germany could even offer to give back Tsingtao (at least nominally - would still be run by German interests). It could start small, with Chinese forces jumping on foreign concessions in general, then marshaling to take Hong Kong.

Like was said, would depend how the Sino-Japanese War had played out on this timeline. Likely still would have happened, but not such a one-sided victory. Indeed, maybe the Chinese won, and still hold Taiwan & Korea. That would have ramifications not just on Japan, but also Russia, as it would likely forestall any Russo-Japanese War.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Gauleiter-4 England enters into war with Russia after Russia invades Poland and Germany. Japan, still ready to ally with Britain (Especially if it means territory for Japan) attacks Vladivostok and invades Siberia.

As Chiang Kai-shek was on the outs with both Russia and the Japanese at the time, he used the fact that they kept each other busy to destroy the Chinese Comunists killing both Mao and Zhou Enlai in the process. But otherwise keeping China out of the war.

By February 1935 (the local date) most of the area that was West Germany in Homeline's history is occupied by the Anglo-French forces. The Anglo-Turkish army is marching north from Astrakhan. While southeastern Siberia is held by Japan.

America is neutral and focused on the New Deal. Centrum is well pleased with this Q6 world and hopes to have the Brits keep their empire dominant. Meanwhile it wants the USA to go Socialist because they think that's bad for the USA. An American Cabalist group thinks it's good for the USA and is sneaking in technological innovations with a goal of making America world dominant.

Homeline is just trying to keep the bloodshed down.

Ouch! Good luck to them, they're going to need it in that scenario. Would be an interesting place to set a campaign, though so would the other Gauleiter timelines.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Ouch! Good luck to them, they're going to need it in that scenario. Would be an interesting place to set a campaign, though so would the other Gauleiter timelines.

Thank-you. As soon as I heard, in a YouTube documentary, of the speculations of von Schleicher's aide, I knew the alternate history the aide proposed would be great for these boards. The Documerian was Time Ghost. He delivers his lectures dressed like a reporter of the historical period.