Thoughts On Dragons

[Anthony]

The standard for dragons is that they're slain by single heroes, possibly with a squire, though those heroes might be demigods or gods (e.g. Tiamat being slain by Marduk, Jörmungandr being slain by Thor). This is not a lot different from other legendary monsters, though; there aren't all that many stories about heroic armies, or really even anything all that similar to a group of PCs (possibly some of the Norse myths; you have a number that involve Odin, Thor, and Loki).

In terms of RPGs, dragons can serve a few purposes, though other than draconic mounts they tend to be boss monsters of some type. Power level is hugely variable though, anywhere from the glorified lizard on up (I used the dragon of the San Andreas Fault in a game once; it was literally on the scale of terrain features).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

More like as the spiders of Mirkwood are to Shelob, but the principle is right. Smaug was one of the older remaining dragons, probably either out of Thangorodrim or immediately thereafter generationally.

But he apparently fell short of Ancalagon the Black.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by whswhs

There's no reason that you couldn't rate dragons as I-, D-, C-, or M- scale. But anything above D-scale is going to be pretty well impossible for a human hero, or even a demigod, to defeat.

I had a dragon in my "Mecha Against the Giants" campaign that was built using Spaceships and had SM+6 and 12 dDR. He was absolutely unkillable by any mundane solution available to TL2 pseudo-Romans. Fortunately, the PCs were piloting TL9 APCs and didn't find him to be much of a threat.

I wrote about it here:
http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com...ession-14.html

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

With those influences in mind (as well as others,) it's often hard to settle on how I want to define things that I write or worlds that I want to create. More importantly, it makes me aware of how different the influences that my audience might have could be. So, how do you see it? In your mind, what defines a dragon? What should a battle against a dragon be like? How does their power compare to the world around them? What do you feel is the more fun experience when it comes to gaming?

I personally prefer the notion of dragon as animal, albeit a particularly smart and deadly animal. If my players walk away thinking of dragons as several thousand or even just several hundred pounds of devious winged death then I have done the job properly. As a net result my dragons tend to look a lot like large, venomous and particularly smart pterosaurs.

A stand up fight against a dragon need not be that hard, but the odds of getting your stand up fight without a lot of planning should be essentially nil. Most would be dragon slayers find themselves on the defensive almost as soon as they enter its territory as they are beaten down by repeated hit and run attacks from on high or out of cover. Dragons are ground feeders, targets are slammed and either dispatched by bite to the throat or raked with poisoned fangs and spurs before the dragon falls back.

As this implies my take on dragons is as an apex preadator rather than a major force in the wider world I would rather save the role of guardian of major treasures or overthrower of kingdoms for other more subtle threats.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

So, how do you see it? In your mind, what defines a dragon? What should a battle against a dragon be like? How does their power compare to the world around them? What do you feel is the more fun experience when it comes to gaming?

Perhaps because of the books I read in my formative years, my archetype for dragons is in the mold of Glaurung; they can be killed, but attempting to do so is perilous. They are formidable, almost elemental in nature, and highly magical. Glaurung, for instance, could cast spells and was as intelligent as he was wily. Such monsters are probably pivotal figures in a game setting, since, regardless of power level, characters need to be both in top form and lucky to defeat them. And even then, there is likely to be a life-changing awful sacrifice for the successful PC.

[Flyndaran]

My initial image of dragons is one of elemental demigods. After reading Cabal, I imagined them as elemental triplets.
Common elementals are singles, with more intelligent and powerful doubles like air-fire being genies. But super powerful triplets are dragons. Classic European versions being air-fire-earth, with Chinese being air-water-earth. Acidic burrowing wyrms being earth-fire-water. I'm not sure how to picture air-fire-water though.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I'm not sure how to picture air-fire-water though.

A Kraken that breathes fire and controls the storms?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

A Kraken that breathes fire and controls the storms?

Fir-air could work as lightning on its own. Storm kraken works nicely, I think.
I think to keep them rare without worrying about breeding populations, very high mana or wild mana regions where elements collide may birth them.
Since most of earth like worlds are water, big oceans may have more than their apparant share of such sea monsters "naturally".

[The Colonel]

I like the Pratchett model of true dragons being extraplanar creatures that only intrude into the real world through powerful magic - which can also fit nicely with medieval notions of dragons being incarnations of the sins of hubris, avarice and gluttony ... they are literally a sort of demon.

This should allow a campaign world where everyone goes on about dragons - maybe even build dungeons as dragon resistant fortifications - but you never actually see one. Until some silly fornicator summons one - and then you may have more luck banishing it than killing it.

Potentially such a world can also include dragon like animals, possibly precursor made, and trading on the psychological value of real dragons in warfare.

[FireTigeris]

My dragons are people,

but with a different concept of what 'others' are people... like if it's not a dragon (or by some extension Dragon-blood) it's an animal and they believe that they were given dominion over the planet so can do with the animals as they please.

You could very well enter a Dragon's territory and leave alive if you are not threatening its hunting grounds or the things (or beings) it considers precious. (I had one that was selectively breeding hares for intelligence and markings who got really PO'ed when a group of hunters came by.)

"You" can 'deal' with them but like a human making a deal with an Amazon Grey (parrot) they are not going to bother 'keeping' the deal unless "you" have some leverage.

"You" are a talking (sometimes amusing) toy/snack... they have learned that mobs of "you" are bothersome and will resort to scorched earth technics to steal dragon territory or hordes.

My dragons are chaos magic- they don't USE it they ARE it- so any spell that requires chanting, handwaving, or items prepared in advance are basically telegraphed and super obvious to the dragon.

My dragons bodies are non-existent (they go POOF) if they are actually killed but I don't tell anyone that- dragons also have good memories but often lack the drive to hunt down the troublemaking humans/others. If someone is wearing dragon scale armor- some recently revived dragon somewhere is PO'ed about the missing scales.