Everyone get +4 for free against berserkers

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

GURPS turn sequence is a mess as written, so common sense has to be applied in order for it to work.

No changes are needed for GURPS turn sequence to work. You might not like how it works, but if you follow the steps as written it doesn't crash on you.

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

In addition, for a more natural fight, I also allow the use of the AoD for Double Defenses after a failed initial defense before damage is rolled, allowing that second defense roll at the cost of the next attack, this is basically when you'd realistically use this anyway, and leads to a better attack/defense flow.

I have a bad feeling about asking this, but I've failed my Curious (9) self-control roll. Are you saying that realistically people can use that split-second between failed parry and getting hit to first decide to dodge and then execute said dodge?


Here's how I see situations floating somewhere in this thread, working RAW.

More skilled warrior fights unworthy opponent. He uses Deceptive Attack to strike through defenses. Uses Committed Attack or AoA to increase his advantage. If the defender is really less skilled, he has to retreat, or spend FP on Feverish Defense, or both. This is clearly loosing a fight, and calls for Morale Check (p. B561). One could probably substitute an Intimidation roll, at up to +4 for definitive display of strength and bloodthirstiness. Getting good reaction is even literally described as looking "too formidable to attack." So on his next turn defender decides to AoD not to spend FP on Feverish Defenses and because he just doesn't see reason in fighting back, even if he sees an opening.

Now, if the attacker is overconfident and defender isn't cornered with his attack despite offensive advantage from AoA, there's no loosing a fight, no Morale Check and on his turn, the defender can beat his equally or less skilled but careless opponent.

I'm not even watching fighting sports, but I'm quite sure that in real life AoA is not a measure to overwhelm someone of the same skill. If this were true, boxing matches would be a lot quicker, because being first to launch a flurry of blows would be the way to win. It's not, AFAIK, and GURPS perfectly doesn't represent the opposite.

So I don't see what's wrong with bonuses granted by AoA.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

A's turn: Step and Attack on B. B defends.
B's turn: All-Out Attack on A. A decides to All-Out Defend.
A's turn: He is still AOD.
B's turn: All-Out Attack on A, crit fails. A decides not to All-Out Defend.
A's turn: Step and Attack on B. B cannot defend.

Okay, that makes sense, although I wouldn't play it that way, since you're essentially deciding your maneuver for next turn on the fly during the intervening turns of other people. I figure that's what Extra Effort in Combat and Retreat are meant to cover, not changing to AOD.

And like I said earlier, people in my games use AOA, CA, A, DA, and AOD pretty regularly. CA and DA less than the others, but they all get used very often. So I'm not looking for a solution to the problem of "people don't use AOD" or "AOA doesn't force people onto the defensive." The first doesn't apply and the second is something I'm not convinced should apply.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

No changes are needed for GURPS turn sequence to work. You might not like how it works, but if you follow the steps as written it doesn't crash on you.

This is true. It really does work as written, and work well. Not without some flaws in simulation, but as Ulzgoroth says, it doesn't crash.

[Kalzazz]

AoA just seems less and less worth it as the characters skill and damage increases

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Gnomasz

I have a bad feeling about asking this, but I've failed my Curious (9) self-control roll. Are you saying that realistically people can use that split-second between failed parry and getting hit to first decide to dodge and then execute said dodge?

It's actually pretty realistic to realize "hey, I'm out of position to parry, I better dodge".

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's actually pretty realistic to realize "hey, I'm out of position to parry, I better dodge".

That sounds to me like not parrying but dodging. Which doesn't require a sudden second defense.

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by RyanW

But do those berserkers have Berserk?

If I were making a berserker, I'd give him stats like a high Intimidation skill, Overconfidence, High Pain Threshold, high Will, etc.

Berserkers tend to be kinda offensive and careless, that's why we call them berserkers and not skilled warriors.

[gilbertocarlos]

What do the forum think about that:

All-Out-Attack(Intimidation): The attacker doesn't gain bonuses from AOA, instead, he attacks normally and the opponent is forced to do a soldier+2 roll based on Will to resist not AOD/running away in his next turn, he would have +2 extra(kinda like a fright check, but simpler).

This way, an untrained peasant with soldier-5 would roll against 7, a militiaman with soldier-9 would roll against 11, a well trained warrior with soldier-10 would roll against 14 and a seasoned warrior with soldier-12 would roll against 16.

[Xplo]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Stop hits are a valid way of stopping an AoA, but other than that normally you have to defend and retreat during that type of flurry, waiting for your opening as the attacker spends themselves, but when dealing with a truly skilled attacker fully dedicated in AoA offensive mode, being able to simply defend and hit him back as if the attacker is a defenseless target is actually a modeling failure.

If you're equally skilled, I can't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to do this. If not, then the skilled attacker doesn't need AoA as he can pummel you quite effectively with Rapid Strikes, and a very highly skilled attacker can make them Deceptive as well.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Gnomasz

That sounds to me like not parrying but dodging. Which doesn't require a sudden second defense.

That's a failed parry followed by a dodge.