Everyone get +4 for free against berserkers

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

By using the common sense AoD option of declaring AoD as you get overwhelmed, which is pretty realistic.

So it works this way:

A does his move - let's say Step and Attack
B All-Out Attacks A, A chooses to All-Out Defend
A's next turn, where he can use the movement and free actions allowed with AOD but otherwise has to keep AODing, which lasts until his next action.

Is that right?

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

GURPS turn sequence is a mess as written, so common sense has to be applied in order for it to work.

Huh. I don't have a lot of the problems in this thread:

- turn sequence seems to work just fine. There are some oddities from I-go-you-go with overlap, but no more than I-go/You-go with simultaneous resolution has given me in other systems.

- people AOA, and while it's inherently very risky it's not either automatic suicide nor is it ignore outright as useless.

- people AOD pretty regularly.

So changing this might solve a problem I'm not actually having.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

So it works this way:

A does his move - let's say Step and Attack
B All-Out Attacks A, A chooses to All-Out Defend
A's next turn, where he can use the movement and free actions allowed with AOD but otherwise has to keep AODing, which lasts until his next action.

Is that right?

Yep, though he chooses whether or not to continue to AoD when and if he gets attacked or the turn after, not during any attack he scrambled to give up.

In addition, for a more natural fight, I also allow the use of the AoD for Double Defenses after a failed initial defense before damage is rolled, allowing that second defense roll at the cost of the next attack, this is basically when you'd realistically use this anyway, and leads to a better attack/defense flow.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

My group uses AoD all the time in our more "tactical" games where we break out the hex maps. In our DF games, AoDs are critical for wolfpack tactics against huge bosses that can potentially one-shot anybody in the party: the guys it's facing AoD while the others surround-n-pound / deal with its mooks. In any of our games where people are shooting at us with guns and we care, AoD (+2 Dodge) is a staple for situations in which cover is 1/2 Move or less away.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Yep, though he chooses whether or not to continue to AoD when and if he gets attacked or the turn after, not during any attack he scrambled to give up.

Now I'm lost. What lost attack?

A's turn: Step and Attack on B. B defends.
B's turn: All-Out Attack on A. A decides to All-Out Defend.
A's next turn: He can choose to continue to AOD, or choose something else.

What's he losing? If he isn't forced to AOD, he's not giving up any attack or anything else.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

You get 0 defense while berserk, yet, there are stories of berserkers with sword and shield.

But do those berserkers have Berserk?

If I were making a berserker, I'd give him stats like a high Intimidation skill, Overconfidence, High Pain Threshold, high Will, etc.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

Now I'm lost. What lost attack?

A's turn: Step and Attack on B. B defends.
B's turn: All-Out Attack on A. A decides to All-Out Defend.
A's next turn: He can choose to continue to AOD, or choose something else.

What's he losing? If he isn't forced to AOD, he's not giving up any attack or anything else.

A's turn: Step and Attack on B. B defends.
B's turn: All-Out Attack on A. A decides to All-Out Defend.
A's turn: He is still AOD.
B's turn: All-Out Attack on A, crit fails. A decides not to All-Out Defend.
A's turn: Step and Attack on B. B cannot defend.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

What's he losing? If he isn't forced to AOD, he's not giving up any attack or anything else.

He appears to be using a Hero abort -- it consumes your next turn. It's not an inherently bad mechanism, it's just not RAW.

[sir_pudding]

I see AoAs and AoDs all the time. AoA gets used by characters with high DR and with ranged weapons quite often. AoD gets used when characters are advancing on ranged weapons with melee weapons, when characters have shock penalties, and when players aren't sure of what to do.

[Landwalker]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Hence the reason no-one actually uses all-out defense; like all-out attack, the situations in which it is useful are extremely limited.

Tangential Tangent is Tangential:

I've found that, when using the Last Gasp rules, All-Out Defense is extremely useful. 2 Free AP for making defenses? Why yes, I think I will!

You may now return to your regularly scheduled debating.