G.E.V. Revision History (and how it relates to Ogre 6e)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by D351

This is the kind of serious rules stuff that I'm totally uninformed about, but is totally what 6e should be addressing.

Y'all know that they've been playtesting it, right?

[D351]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Y'all know that they've been playtesting it, right?

Yep... And I imagine they've long since worked out these problems.

[Buzzardo]

Originally Posted by Talorien

Yes, I'm also looking forward to having all the rules and scenarios in one place.

Me, too. I'm not concerned about their history, so long as the new set is the only set of rules going forward. Then the 6e rules can be revised as necessary (6e rev 0, 6e rev 1, etc.).

I'm very much hoping that sales will justify expansions, and those expansions may include rules changes. Provided that the 6e rules are a unified base made from all the previous editions, that should be OK.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by D351

Yep... And I imagine they've long since worked out these problems.

And I assume nothing; that's why I'm bringing it up. Since it's NOT finished yet, it's a LOT easier to have it clarified now, rather than in errata later on.

[D351]

Originally Posted by coriolanus

And I assume nothing; that's why I'm bringing it up. Since it's NOT finished yet, it's a LOT easier to have it clarified now, rather than in errata later on.

And I totally support your work ethic.

[Steve Jackson]

The current draft completely drops that section, on the theory that it's too hinky and a scenario can always add specific effects for specific hexes.

Current rule, in pertinent part:

5.082 Effects on GEVs. Because of their speed and vulnerability, GEVs are greatly affected by terrain, as follows.
Roads and water aid GEV movement. A GEV which starts its turn on either road or water, and spends the entire movement phase on that road or water, may move one extra hex along that road or water. A GEV also treats rail hexes as road. Note: A GEV cannot start a phase on road and switch to water, or vice versa, and get the bonus. Since a GEV has two movement phases each turn, it can get a bonus twice per turn, and move a total of 9 hexes along either road or water.


I suppose I could add a very short mention of the possibility of ramps.

5.082 POSSIBLE MOD Effects on GEVs. Because of their speed and vulnerability, GEVs are greatly affected by terrain, as follows.
Roads and water aid GEV movements. A GEV which starts its turn on either road or water, and spends the entire movement phase on that road or water, may move one extra hex along that road or water. A GEV also treats rail hexes as road. Since a GEV has two movement phases each turn, it can get a bonus twice per turn, and move a total of 9 hexes along either road or water. Note: A GEV cannot start a phase on road and switch to water, or vice versa, and get the bonus, unless a scenario specifically designates a hex as containing a ramp or a smooth beach.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

I suppose I could add a very short mention of the possibility of ramps.

5.082 POSSIBLE MOD Effects on GEVs. Because of their speed and vulnerability, GEVs are greatly affected by terrain, as follows.
Roads and water aid GEV movements. A GEV which starts its turn on either road or water, and spends the entire movement phase on that road or water, may move one extra hex along that road or water. A GEV also treats rail hexes as road. Since a GEV has two movement phases each turn, it can get a bonus twice per turn, and move a total of 9 hexes along either road or water. Note: A GEV cannot start a phase on road and switch to water, or vice versa, and get the bonus, unless a scenario specifically designates a hex as containing a ramp or a smooth beach.

My vote is for the modified version from your message (quoted above). It's just as clear as the first version, but explicitly allows for scenario-specific "special" hexes. Very smooth.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

The current draft completely drops that section, on the theory that it's too hinky and a scenario can always add specific effects for specific hexes.

Current rule, in pertinent part:

5.082 Effects on GEVs. Because of their speed and vulnerability, GEVs are greatly affected by terrain, as follows.
Roads and water aid GEV movement. A GEV which starts its turn on either road or water, and spends the entire movement phase on that road or water, may move one extra hex along that road or water. A GEV also treats rail hexes as road. Note: A GEV cannot start a phase on road and switch to water, or vice versa, and get the bonus. Since a GEV has two movement phases each turn, it can get a bonus twice per turn, and move a total of 9 hexes along either road or water.


I suppose I could add a very short mention of the possibility of ramps.

5.082 POSSIBLE MOD Effects on GEVs. Because of their speed and vulnerability, GEVs are greatly affected by terrain, as follows.
Roads and water aid GEV movements. A GEV which starts its turn on either road or water, and spends the entire movement phase on that road or water, may move one extra hex along that road or water. A GEV also treats rail hexes as road. Since a GEV has two movement phases each turn, it can get a bonus twice per turn, and move a total of 9 hexes along either road or water. Note: A GEV cannot start a phase on road and switch to water, or vice versa, and get the bonus, unless a scenario specifically designates a hex as containing a ramp or a smooth beach.

Hmm, hard to say if the ramp/smooth beach note is necessary or not (I'm thinking not). The ramp matters only in the special case going from road to water and I don't think the beach matters at all.

If you are keeping the "stream effect," then you need to flesh out the details concerning what is a stream (eg, just water/clear, water/forest, NOT water/swamp, etc). Hinky is probably as good a word as any to describe that mess.

The only way beaches make a difference is in the case where you are still maintaining the "stream effect" rule (ie, beaches would allow you to continue movement as normal, rather than being forced to stop) or if the beach allows for the water bonus to be applied to the adjacent land hex (which is stupid). With the map not having a clear visual definition of a beach, it becomes problematic to tell where the beach is or isn't, so drop the beach and the "stream effect" altogether. Since you are dropping the "stream effect" (the only valid reason to need a beach), the beach becomes irrelevant, so it's unlikely that beaches would even show up in scenario special notes.

As for the ramps; as far as I know, there are no examples on any of the maps of roads leading to water. Because of that, I would leave any rules about ramps as special notes in a specific scenario stating a ramp exists at a given hex and provides the road/water bonus carryover.

So the upshot of all that, I suppose, is to leave your draft of 5.082 as-is and just leave the ramp/beach stuff out of it.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by Bowser

My vote is for the modified version from your message (quoted above). It's just as clear as the first version, but explicitly allows for scenario-specific "special" hexes. Very smooth.

I do think the clarification that a GEV can not transfer the bonus between road and water is important (there are enough places where there is a road hex next to a water hex).

Perhaps remove the ending "or a smooth beach," since there is no clear definition of what a beach is, and it can just as easily be handled by a ramp. I don't see being able to logically connect a road to water with a beach...

5.082 POSSIBLE MOD Effects on GEVs. Because of their speed and vulnerability, GEVs are greatly affected by terrain, as follows.
Roads and water aid GEV movements. A GEV which starts its turn on either road or water, and spends the entire movement phase on that road or water, may move one extra hex along that road or water. A GEV also treats rail hexes as road. Since a GEV has two movement phases each turn, it can get a bonus twice per turn, and move a total of 9 hexes along either road or water. Note: A GEV cannot start a phase on road and switch to water, or vice versa, and get the bonus, unless a scenario specifically designates a hex as containing a ramp or a smooth beach. <-- remove this part

[GranitePenguin]

Not to muddy this further, but 5.082 also mentions that GEVs can use railroads as roads for the purpose of getting the road bonus. Do we need clarification similar to the road/water for rail/water or road/rail? There are a LOT of places where a hex has both road and rail in the same hex.

Perhaps something like:

5.082 Effects on GEVs. Because of their speed and vulnerability, GEVs are greatly affected by terrain, as follows.
Roads and water aid GEV movements. A GEV which starts its turn on either road or water, and spends the entire movement phase on that road or water, may move one extra hex along that road or water. A GEV also treats rail hexes as road. Since a GEV has two movement phases each turn, it can get a bonus twice per turn, and move a total of 9 hexes along either road or water. Note: A GEV cannot start a phase on one extra-hex surface and switch to another, and get the bonus, unless a scenario specifically designates a hex as containing a connecting ramp.