Priests and Paladins

[platimus]

The Golden Priest said:

Mana and the Wizard’s Staff
(Much of this would be moved elsewhere, mostly under STAFF in the section on wizardry.)
Mana is a stat, not of the wizard, but of the wizard’s staff. When a wizard first creates a staff, it has 0 mana. By spending 200 XP, the wizard may add 1 to the mana of the staff, up to a limit equal to the wizard’s current IQ stat. Each point of mana can be spent like a point of ST to power spells.
Once spent, the mana must be replaced. To “recharge” his staff, the wizard must either spend 5 ST points, or spend a half-day in contemplation, for each ST point replaced. (An exploit is clearly possible here using the Drain ST spell and a lot of prisoners. It will at least encourage evil rulers to keep their prisoners alive so their evil wizards can farm ST. Maybe good rulers would do it too, at least as part of some punishments.)
If a staff is lost or destroyed, the wizard’s next one will have the same mana stat. The XP was spent, not to enhance a stick of wood, but to improve the wizard’s understanding of the spell. However, the new staff will contain no actual mana until the wizard puts it in.
A wizard may have only one staff at a time. If he loses his staff, the act of making another will disempower the old staff. Most staves are wood, but silver, and wood-and-silver, are allowable, and gem decorations are common for wealthy wizards.
No one but the creating wizard himself may draw ST from a staff.
The “Staff of Power” spell doubles the ST that a staff can hold, so the limit becomes twice the wizard’s IQ.

The wizard must be holding or wearing the staff for it to be useful.
A “staff” does not have to be a literal staff. Common forms include:
• An actual staff. Advantage: has other uses, including walking and whacking foes. Disadvantage: bulky.
• A wand. Advantages: light, stylish. Disadvantage: does no damage of its own if you strike with it.
• A necklace, bracelet, or even ring. Advantage: discreet; remains in touch with your skin but you don’t use hands. Disadvantage: cannot be used for a staff strike. You may not punch someone with a “staff ring” and do extra damage.
• Sword (must be silver, or it’s just a club). Advantage: deadly weapon, can be enhanced by staff-strike power. Disadvantage: of less use unless you have Sword training.
• Dagger (must be silver, or it’s just a stake). Advantage: last-ditch weapon, cleaning fingernails, gesturing emphatically. Disadvantage: less effective if you don’t buy Knife skill.
* Club/Hammer (wood/silver).

Unlike other spells, the Staff spell can be learned only by a wizard; it is the very mark of wizardry.

Staff strike: If a weapon-type staff contains mana, a wizard who hits with it may spend a single point of mana to do one extra die of damage with the staff. This attack is rolled separately and is not stopped by armor!

I particularly LIKE the red text above. My first thought was of a Red Priest that started his own cult just so he could siphon power from his flock. I've added the blue text.

Nothing specific yet, but here's my plan to implement Priests and Paladins:

A Priest is simply a Wizard holding a religious office of some sort or is part of some cult. As such, his "staff" must be a holy symbol. If merited by the specific religion or cult affiliation, the "staff" may be made of other materials. He can learn spells from any scroll (normal or religious) but he may find himself branded as a heretic and cast-out if his cult or religion disapproves of the spell or how he obtained it. The same can be said of any of his behaviors and associations with other (N)PCs. For the most part, the XP costs and rules governing Wizards are the same rules applied to Priests but with a different "set and dressing".

In most cases, the religion or cult dynamics can be approached as if it were a guild. Some portion of his 'loot' must be given periodically to his 'guild' or there will likely be consequences. However, the Priest may be the sole member of his religion/cult. Perhaps his religion was inspired by a divine vision or perhaps he is simply trying to start a new religion. He/she might even be looking to create a flock of his own to fleece.

A Paladin is simply a non-wizard (Hero, Adventurer, Fighter, whatever you want to call them. I like the term 'Martialist' myself) that is affiliated with a religion or cult. A Paladin cannot simply start his own religion or cult. There must be at least one Priest from which he receives his sacraments. He can only learn his "spells" from a Priest of his religion or a scroll made by a Priest of his religion. For the most part, the same XP costs and rules governing non-wizards are applied to Paladins, however he may have similar "guild" obligations as that of the Priest. Also, he may have a "staff" (same as wizard "staff", not necessarily a literal staff) but a Priest of his "guild" must create it for him.(decided against the "staff" for a Paladin. For now, at least.)

In game, either of these guys/gals could be referred to as a "cleric" or any other label you want to slap on them. Most existing spells can be "window dressed" as "religious powers" very easily. New/additional "spells" could be created specifically for a particular religion/cult by a Priest of that particular religion or cult. I'm quite sure some commonly used additional "spells" would be Turn Undead and Create Undead. Most religious or cult-ural aspects of a game are going to be campaign-specific, a matter of "flavor", and at the GM's discretion.

[Skarg]

Yes, though in cases where there is a spell that is fairly powerful and high-IQ that is supposedly limited by costing the wizard fatigue, both Drain ST and perhaps more importantly, the IQ 9 Aid spell, can greatly accelerate the use of such a spell if you have enough subjects and/or apprentices to get more fatigue from.

The new Staff-as-ST-Battery and the new Healing spell (unless SJ fixes it) both have this issue, which seems problematic to me in two ways:

1) The design intent and GM assumption that these spells are limited to use at a certain rate by PCs and NPCs may be incorrect, and the players and/or GM may realize this after a campaign has been played for a while, leading to one of those weird situations and retcon temptations where you have to figure out what to do with the knowledge that every wizard with these spells is being much less effective than they could be unless they gather a bunch of people with Aid, have their friends and minions all learn Aid, and spend lots of time managing channeling ST to the wizards with these spells.

2) Tracking who is resting when, who's casting Aid on whom all day long, who's resting when, etc., is pretty fiddly and cumbersome. And I say that as someone who has a LOT more tolerance for such things than almost anyone I know who's still interested in TFT rather than GURPS. This creates a tension where there is a very effective way to multiply the effectiveness of a wizard (and/or healing wizard) but it's also annoying to track it and weird/undesirable in that the effectiveness of a wizard is multiplied by how many apprentices they bring with them and how well they schedule their resting and use of Aid spells.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Yes, though in cases where there is a spell that is fairly powerful and high-IQ that is supposedly limited by costing the wizard fatigue, both Drain ST and perhaps more importantly, the IQ 9 Aid spell, can greatly accelerate the use of such a spell if you have enough subjects and/or apprentices to get more fatigue from.

The new Staff-as-ST-Battery and the new Healing spell (unless SJ fixes it) both have this issue, which seems problematic to me in two ways:

1) The design intent and GM assumption that these spells are limited to use at a certain rate by PCs and NPCs may be incorrect, and the players and/or GM may realize this after a campaign has been played for a while, leading to one of those weird situations and retcon temptations where you have to figure out what to do with the knowledge that every wizard with these spells is being much less effective than they could be unless they gather a bunch of people with Aid, have their friends and minions all learn Aid, and spend lots of time managing channeling ST to the wizards with these spells.

2) Tracking who is resting when, who's casting Aid on whom all day long, who's resting when, etc., is pretty fiddly and cumbersome. And I say that as someone who has a LOT more tolerance for such things than almost anyone I know who's still interested in TFT rather than GURPS. This creates a tension where there is a very effective way to multiply the effectiveness of a wizard (and/or healing wizard) but it's also annoying to track it and weird/undesirable in that the effectiveness of a wizard is multiplied by how many apprentices they bring with them and how well they schedule their resting and use of Aid spells.

No disrespect intended but I feel completely dumb right now. Can you point out the part or parts of my post you are referring to and explain what you are saying? I have no idea at present.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by platimus

No disrespect intended but I feel completely dumb right now. Can you point out the part or parts of my post you are referring to and explain what you are saying? I have no idea at present.

Sorry, I guess I went off on a general tangent. I was responding to the part where you said you liked the line in red, which is about the use of Drain ST as a way to get your staff ST recharged quickly, and how it means people might want to keep prisoners to milk ST from them to do that.

I was expanding the observation to similar use of the Aid spell (which is more efficient than Drain ST, but you'd tend to have allies use it) and the Healing spell (which similarly is supposed to be limited in rate by the ST cost, but Drain ST and Aid can divide down that limit if people get organized in how they rest and use those spells).

[platimus]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Sorry, I guess I went off on a general tangent. I was responding to the part where you said you liked the line in red, which is about the use of Drain ST as a way to get your staff ST recharged quickly, and how it means people might want to keep prisoners to milk ST from them to do that.

I was expanding the observation to similar use of the Aid spell (which is more efficient than Drain ST, but you'd tend to have allies use it) and the Healing spell (which similarly is supposed to be limited in rate by the ST cost, but Drain ST and Aid can divide down that limit if people get organized in how they rest and use those spells).

Oh, I see. Yes, never underestimate the power of people working in harmonic unison!