Stealth Penalties for Squeaky floors?

[BraselC5048]

If a character's sneaking around somebody else's house, and there might be some squeaky floors in there, what would be a good penalty to give stealth rolls? I'm assuming a big penalty, particularly if you don't know where they are, or even if there are any. Or squeaky doors, for that matter.

On a related question, what kind of success on stealth rolls is needed to avoid possibly waking up somebody who's asleep? Obviously, it varies depending on combinations of light sleeper (hard), combat reflexes (hard), and deep sleeper (very easy).

[acrosome]

Low Tech p.124 has rules for nightingale floors. It also says that an intruder will step on a single squeaky floorboard randomly on a roll of 1-3 on 1d6. It doesn't say anything about the effects though. Presumably you'd assign a noise level per B358 and allow a hearing roll.

[BraselC5048]

Results of some quick experiments: Shifting your weight reeaally slloowwlly can avoid squeaking, somewhat, from someone with no points in stealth and a terrible default. The two main sources of door noise are the hinges and, surprisingly, the shifting of the weight of the door in it's frame. More surprisingly, opening the door slowly was pretty noisy, with hinges squealing, while opening it at a normal pace made almost no noise at all. And weight distribution of a door matters, so how you hold it appears to be important.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by BraselC5048

If a character's sneaking around somebody else's house, and there might be some squeaky floors in there, what would be a good penalty to give stealth rolls? I'm assuming a big penalty, particularly if you don't know where they are, or even if there are any. Or squeaky doors, for that matter.

Nightingale Floor (GURPS Low-Tech, p. 124) might be of some use to you. I'd say it wouldn't give a penalty to skill, but a bonus to others Perception rolls.

Originally Posted by BraselC5048

On a related question, what kind of success on stealth rolls is needed to avoid possibly waking up somebody who's asleep? Obviously, it varies depending on combinations of light sleeper (hard), combat reflexes (hard), and deep sleeper (very easy).

They'd have a penalty to their Perception rolls - I think it's -10 or no penalty with Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes.

[BraselC5048]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Low Tech p.124 has rules for nightingale floors. It also says that an intruder will step on a single squeaky floorboard randomly on a roll of 1-3 on 1d6. It doesn't say anything about the effects though. Presumably you'd assign a noise level per B358 and allow a hearing roll.

I have it, and was thinking of something more along the lines of a penalty to stealth rolls to avoid making noise in the first place. A big penalty, but that's what you bought stealth up so high for in the first place.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Nightingale Floor (GURPS Low-Tech, p. 124) might be of some use to you. I'd say it wouldn't give a penalty to skill, but a bonus to others Perception rolls.

Those aren't really mechanically distinct, since it's a quick contest. Part of me wants to call it a Traps roll to notice the problematic floorboards, and then grant something like an unmodified Per roll if not avoided. Squeaky floors are an edge case because they probably can be reduced by stealth, but many sorts of noisemakers simply make a flat noise unless disarmed or evaded, in which case they don't make any noise at all.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Those aren't really mechanically distinct, since it's a quick contest. Part of me wants to call it a Traps roll to notice the problematic floorboards, and then grant something like an unmodified Per roll if not avoided. Squeaky floors are an edge case because they probably can be reduced by stealth, but many sorts of noisemakers simply make a flat noise unless disarmed or evaded, in which case they don't make any noise at all.

I could see Traps if it was intentionally put there, but others a Perception roll would be the way to go. Again, it would give a bonus to others Perception rolls to notice you - not the other way around. At least in my mind.

[acrosome]

Low Tech says to make a Traps or Carpentry roll to notice a nightingale floor, or a Carpentry roll to notice a loose floorboard that will squeak.

I'm not sure a simple Perception roll is appropriate. "Yep, that's a floorboard..."

But also, I'd imagine that a simple penalty to Stealth in an "area of squeaky floorboards" might be a reasonable model. The people who actually teach the Stealth skill will, for instance, teach you to step around the periphery of a floor rather than walking through the center, since the boards are better supported near the wall and thus less likely to squeak. Likewise, step on the sides of stairs, not the center. Etc. Thus, high Stealth skill might mitigate the squeaky floorboards.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Again, it would give a bonus to others Perception rolls to notice you - not the other way around. At least in my mind.

It's a totally meaningless distinction -- in a quick contest, you win if (my margin of success/failure) - (opponent measure of success/failure) > 0. A penalty to the first term and a bonus to the second term have identical effects.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's a totally meaningless distinction -- in a quick contest, you win if (my margin of success/failure) - (opponent measure of success/failure) > 0. A penalty to the first term and a bonus to the second term have identical effects.

Aesthetically, it is more pleasing to my GM sensibilities.