GURPS Fifth Millennium

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

That's the second W040K comment.

I really like WH40K, but I'm not seeing the connection.

What about this world is so bleak?
What makes it bleaker than our world?

Is it the human modification and non-human intelligence stuff that is so disturbing?

What reminds me the most of 40K is the stagnated technological development. Though "bleak" is probably the wrong word... cynical? Pessimistic, maybe? The bleakest aspect of the write up so far was the way the general position on space travel was stated, along with AIs position and the lack of technological advancement it paints the image of a stalled world that no longer has dreams and hopes, just kind of an eternal status quo (similar to the Imperium) That might just a matter of presentation. Maybe some more information on things that have and are progressing: art, music, human rights, etc.

I don't have any issues with nonhuman intelligence or human modification in general.

Please don't take as me saying "You're doing it wrong." It was just the impression I had when I read your intro.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

There might be AI civilization developing among the abandoned lunar bases, or something along those lines.

I'm probably misreading your tone or its application hear but this came across as someone contemptuous of the idea of space travel and I read that as reflecting the general attitude in the setting: its something only an idiot would do. That contributed to the cynical vibe I got from the setting outline.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Keiko

What reminds me the most of 40K is the stagnated technological development. Though "bleak" is probably the wrong word... cynical? Pessimistic, maybe? The bleakest aspect of the write up so far was the way the general position on space travel was stated. That might just a matter of presentation.

I don't have any issues with nonhuman intelligence or human modification in general.

There may be a dash of cynicism in it, although I'd call that realism about human nature combined with the CHSF tech path.

Is tech progress petering out because people don't care to try harder, or do people not invest a lot of time and energy in new tech and science because practical limits have been reached in many areas? That's something scholars might debate in the setting. Most folks are likely busy with other concerns.

The abandonment of space was presented in that way to thwart reader/player expectations of extraterrestrial colonies, yes. That's a dream that failed. There's a certain sad romance to that, at least for me. YMMV.

Earth is meant to be the main focus of the setting, the home of humanity and most of its created races.

But I can imagine a game in which a PC climbed into his rocket with his girlfriend, his neo-chimp buddy, and a bunch of AI bots and took off for Luna to investigate legends of AI civ developing there. Or flew even further out, to search for lost colonies and ancient artifacts.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

That's the second W040K comment.

I really like WH40K, but I'm not seeing the connection.

What about this world is so bleak?
What makes it bleaker than our world?

Is it the human modification and non-human intelligence stuff that is so disturbing?

Nope. People react that because it's a world in which humanity has reached a virtual dead end. Progress is over and the world will never get better and we'll never learn anything new or go anywhere we've never been. You've made a future that doesn't have one.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Keiko

I'm probably misreading your tone or its application hear but this came across as someone contemptuous of the idea of space travel and I read that as reflecting the general attitude in the setting: its something only an idiot would do. That contributed to the cynical vibe I got from the setting outline.

In fact, I'm not contemptuous of space exploration IRL. I support sending more probes and collecting more information. I would be happy to see mining of extraterrestrial resources if it could ever be made practical.

You need to distinguish between exploring space and living in space or on other planets. A lot of exploration has been done with probes. AI might increase that trend. If an AI can do the job just as well, why send a human with all that expensive life support?

What I don't think is likely with conservative projections based on current technology (5M is a CHSF tech path setting) and related social and economic factors is human colonization of the Solar System. Not impossible, but implausible.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Nope. People react that because it's a world in which humanity has reached a virtual dead end. Progress is over and the world will never get better and we'll never learn anything new or go anywhere we've never been. You've made a future that doesn't have one.

Of course there is a future. It's just not the one that some people might hope for.

Every human being reaches a dead end. It's called 'death.'
:)


And every species will become extinct someday.

Even in universes with lots and lots of space colonies, the Heat Death awaits. The Sun will die long before that.

man will be blotted out, the blithe earth die, the brave sun
Die blind and blacken to the heart:
Yet stones have stood for a thousand years, and pained thoughts
found
The honey of peace in old poems

Robinson Jeffers

[MatthewVilter]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

But I can imagine a game in which a PC climbed into his rocket with his girlfriend, his neo-chimp buddy, and a bunch of AI bots and took off for Luna to investigate legends of AI civ developing there. Or flew even further out, to search for lost colonies and ancient artifacts.

That is exactly the kind of thing I would want to do in the setting...and it sounds awesome!

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

You've made a future that doesn't have one.

And I would just take that as a challenge. ;)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Of course there is a future. .

But it's a future in which nothing will be different from the game's present.

[ericthered]

So what can we do to help?

do you just want to share?
do you want error checking on whats plausible or not?
do you want comments on whats fun in this world?
do you want suggestions on features of the world?

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

But it's a future in which nothing will be different from the game's present.

That's not how I see it, but YMMV.


A lot can change without tubs of new tech and/or major scientific breakthroughs (which I haven't ruled are all strictly impossible in physical terms-- that may be true in some areas and not true in others)
Humans could become extinct.
Existing human and parahuman cultures might evolve in new directions.
A new tech path might emerge, like Safetech or even Retrotech.
Go far enough ahead in time and uplifted animals may have evolved greater intelligence, allowing them to create their own post-human civilizations.
AI civ in space might develop independently of humanity, as has been suggested.
Maybe friendly AIs in space would even offer to help some adventurous humans out into the 'forgotten frontier.'



David, I appreciate your take on the setting. If it seems bleak, depressing, or just unappealing to you, my feelings won't be hurt. I've always appreciated your comments.