[DF] Magery And Effect And Healing Spells

[wmervine4]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The intent of Magery and Effect is that they are, it explicitly says that higher Magery allows you to exceed the minimum limits.

Right you are. I didn't pay enough attention to the capitalization of the term Magery and Effect. M9 explains pretty clearly that although Minor Healing's spell description limits the energy expenditure to 3, higher levels of Magery can increase this cap. Major Healing is actually used in the example, which makes it clear. Thank you for pointing this out.

[Kromm]

The way it's supposed to work is like this:

If any kind of spell has N clearly quantized levels of effect, and you have M levels of the spellcasting talent that allows you to cast that spell (Magery, Power Investiture, whatever), you may cast that spell as if the allowed levels of effect were the higher of M or N. For instance, Minor Healing has three levels (characterized by 1-3 FP healing 1-3 HP) and Major Healing has four (characterized by 1-4 FP healing 2-8 HP), so someone with one to three levels of spellcasting talent casts them as written; a caster with four levels casts Major Healing as written but can go to 4 FP, healing 4 HP, with Minor Healing; and a magic-user with five or more levels can spend FP equal to level on either spell, healing the associated number of HP.

[Anthony]

So how is that supposed to interact with magic items? Do they use the talent level of the wielder or something else?

[wmervine4]

After the helpful comments by sir_pudding, I have a better perspective with which to address this question now.

Originally Posted by scc

The thing is Magic it says that if you have 15 or more in Physician you can use a Wand of Minor/Major Healing (Or whatever). Presumably this still applies in DF, except that you replace Physician with Esoteric Medicine.

I would agree with this. Of course in DF, there are flavors of Esoteric Medicine, specifically Chi, Druidic, and Holy. Any of these should work to make a character able to use a wand of Minor Healing.

Originally Posted by scc

So a Wizard with Esoteric Medicine-15 can use can use a Wand of Minor Healing, now for Magery and Effect does the Wizard's Magery count for allow him to spend more then 3 FP when casting the spell?

Here's where if you're running DF by the book I don't think I would agree with this. If you're using Esoteric Medicine-15 as a substitute for the power source the wand was enchanted with, then levels of Magery are irrelevant. In DF, wizards can't cast Healing spells, so the cap for a wizard with Esoteric Medicine-15 would be the standard 3 when using a wand of Minor Healing.

More generally, I think the power source an item is enchanted with matters as far as which other characters could leverage that item. For instance, if a Cleric enchanted a wand of Minor Healing, then only a character with Power Investiture would be able to pick up that wand and be able to override the normal cap of 3 energy with higher levels of Power Investiture. A Druid or Wizard wouldn't be able to exceed the standard cap of 3 for Minor Healing.

Does that help?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anthony

So how is that supposed to interact with magic items? Do they use the talent level of the wielder or something else?

If the item lets the user cast the spell, the user is casting the spell. Spellcasting talent affects the limit normally, if that talent matches the magic in the item. If I have Magery 27 but don't know Deathtouch, and I pick up a wizardly Deathtouch wand, I can cast 27d Deathtouch spells with it. If it's a clerical Deathtouch wand that somehow still works for anybody, I can cast 3d Deathtouch spells with it. Note that many items that let you cast a spell work only if you have the right kind of talent; if you search GURPS Magic, you aren't going to find many spells that are affected by Magery and Effect and have Item versions that don't say "Usable only by mages."

If the item casts the spell by itself, the user's level of spellcasting talent is completely irrelevant. The items uses the rules for the spell as written. This is true even if its creator was very talented, as that person might have cast the spell that created the item but they're not casting the spell when the item is used . . . the item is, and items can't have Magery, Power Investiture, etc.

Note also that the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game throws a curveball, in that any enchanted item can be clerical, druidic, or wizardly (to quote Adventurers, p. 117: "you get to specify whether the magic is clerical, druidic, or wizardly"). Even if a PC caster of a given type cannot cast a spell, powerful, off-screen NPC enchanters can manufacture out-of-realm items. However, that doesn't actually change my ruling at all . . . it just means that situations like a cleric finding a wizardly Major Healing wand and being unable to leverage Power Investiture are more likely to arise.

[scc]

Thanks for that Kromm.

As for your response I believe that Minor/Major Healing are the only two spells where Magery And Effect comes into and can be cast without spellcasting talent.

Of course this then makes me want to add D&D's Use Magic Device to GURPS, Hard or Very Hard skill?