Where the pike?

[t@nya]

I need stats for the pike but I can't find it either in Characters or Martial Arts. It's such a well-known weapon I can't believe it would be left out.

[Ed the Coastie]

I generally just use the stats for a Long Spear.

[t@nya]

Originally Posted by Ed the Coastie

I generally just use the stats for a Long Spear.

Sounds reasonable. I just wonder why the weapon isn't even mentioned, except in the entry for pikestaff. It's not even on the weapons' list in Martial Arts.

[Phil Masters]

Because it's a bloomin' silly weapon to use in single combat, and few roleplayers are terribly interested in standing around with three hundred other schlubs hoping that the artillery don't notice them and the cavalry are stupid enough to charge them frontally rather than flanking them?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Because it's a bloomin' silly weapon to use in single combat, and few roleplayers are terribly interested in standing around with three hundred other schlubs hoping that the artillery don't notice them and the cavalry are stupid enough to charge them frontally rather than flanking them?

But don't we need stats for them for those inevitably moments when the PCs on horses decide to frontally charge three hundred schlubs with pikes? ;)

This has actually happened in my campaign, yes. There were only a hundred orcs and not all of them had pikes, but the point remains.

[Brandy]

Originally Posted by Icelander

There were only a hundred orcs and not all of them had pikes, but the point remains.

I would imagine that several of them would remain. Ouch.

Still, a spear is a spear is a spear when you're running in to it, no?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Bookman

I would imagine that several of them would remain. Ouch.

The PCs won.

The horses that they were riding died, but that wasn't a surprise to anyone. Anyway, they didn't just decide to charge, one of them just critically failed a default Riding roll and the others decided that following him was a bright idea.

The PCs had good armour, very good skill with their weapons and once they got over having charged the orcs, actually developed some decent tactics. Plus Healing potions. Many for each of them.

Originally Posted by Bookman

Still, a spear is a spear is a spear when you're running in to it, no?

I used the Long Spear two-handed stats, required two-hands and made Reach 2-4*. Those were short pikes.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Because it's a bloomin' silly weapon to use in single combat, and few roleplayers are terribly interested in standing around with three hundred other schlubs hoping that the artillery don't notice them and the cavalry are stupid enough to charge them frontally rather than flanking them?

On the other hand, it's exactly the sort of thing that ought to go into GURPS Low-Tech, or whatever it's going to be called. Age of pike and shot, TL4, clearly within the proper range of TLs. Not to mention the TL2 hoplite style that partly inspired it.

Bill Stoddard

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

It's not much of an individual combat weapon - the other stuff in martial arts is, generally. We have some group combat rules, but the emphasis is on martial artists in general and PC martial artists in specific. Pikes aren't the kind of weapons they use.

Bill's write, a hypothetical low-tech book would cover both TL2 (pike warfare at it's finest), and TL4 (pike-and-shot), and would be a logical place to discuss pikes.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by whswhs

On the other hand, it's exactly the sort of thing that ought to go into GURPS Low-Tech, or whatever it's going to be called. Age of pike and shot, TL4, clearly within the proper range of TLs. Not to mention the TL2 hoplite style that partly inspired it.

Oh, the pike is solidly TL2. Ask Alexander of Macedon, for a start. It merely enjoyed a revival at TL4.

For that matter, I'm sure that a pike could be made perfectly satisfactorily at TL1. The reasons why this doesn't seem to have happened would be more socio-economic than military, I think.

Whether Macedonian pikemen would have Hoplomachia style is probably not a question with which I'd want to engage.