Fighting in Poor Lighting

[VariousRen]

A party of PC's is being ambushed at night at their camp, which is lit by a few torches and a camp fire. We've already established that the torches and low burning camp fire give a -3 vision penalty because they are throwing long flickering shadows, so a -3 to all attacks going on unless people have night vision.

My question is what happens with defenses when lighting is used to penalize attacks. Basic Set pg.394 says that all attacks are penalized, not skill, so as written defenses shouldn't change. This seems like it would turn most fights into a stalemate, with evenly matched opponents having normal defenses but no extra skill to deceptive attack it down to hit-able ranges.

I haven't had much experience with low-light fights, so I figured I would ask if this would cause any problems and drag out fights, and if defenses should be penalized by penalty/2.

[CeeDub]

As far as I can tell, active defenses are rarely penalized, not even by shock penalty. Also, bad lighting does not show up on the Active Defense Modifiers table on B548f.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by VariousRen

I haven't had much experience with low-light fights, so I figured I would ask if this would cause any problems and drag out fights, and if defenses should be penalized by penalty/2.

The most straight forward answer: Depends on your power level... and if the sides are evenly matched in terms of skill. However, regardless without any penalty mitigator (Night Vision, Dark Vision, etc) combat will slow a little.

Unless one-side really just outclasses the other, which case it's just a lopsided fight that gets even more lopsided.


Lower attack skills, 10-14 range, means attacks and defenses are almost 50/50, no one can afford to Deceptive Attack. Feints will feel strongly rewarded and almost necessary. At this level it will probably drag a bit.

'Mid'-level skills, 15-17, means attacks are slightly better. Still going to be feints instead of Deceptive Attacks. Committed Attack Determined could pull of a Deceptive Attack at this skill level. Combat will slow some.

High level skills, 18-21, means it will only slow it down a bit. The skill 20 warrior isn't making -3 Deceptive Attacks every turn anymore (unless he's going AOA Determined), though he try for Committed Attack Determined.

DF Knights, skills 22-25, does he even notice the darkness? He can afford to Deceptive Attack (even a -1 on the enemy's defense is useful) or targeted attack (limbs or vitals-3, face or neck -5) which will help keep the combat moving at a steady pace.

Uber skills, 26+, this piddly torchligt does not even phase this warrior. Even total darkness or sudden blindness will not stop this killing machine.

[Bruno]

Defenses become penalized by trying more risky attacks to make up for the lighting penalty - All Out or Committed attacks for the attack bonus.

Otherwise, yes, people trying to hit each other in the dark is a bit farcical.

[jason taylor]

By the way, that was how Pat Garret killed Billy the Kid, in a barn in the dark.

[Anthony]

Note that poor lighting can be combined with stealth, which will speed things up by causing the defender to not get a defense at all.

[jason taylor]

Unless the defender knows he's coming anyway. Then the main advantage is just masking the approach.

In the incident I described, Billy knew Pat was coming for him. In retrospect he might have been wiser to wait by the door. Maybe he was afraid the backup would see him.