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Old 03-22-2018, 01:44 AM   #11
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

I have run an arena drawn out on a single sheet of A4 in the past. It had six gates and two sturdy towers with turrets on top. The towers blocked LOS between the gates and also provided a mechanism to add in crowd participation (not that this proved necessary).

It played very fast but the tactical choices were no less limited than a conventional game. The towers kept interfering with LOS. The small size forced manoeuvring and the short ranges meant you couldn't afford to slow down too much as otherwise the targeting mods got too beneficial. It also meant there were no isolated battles, everyone was in the dogfight and even mobility kills could still influence the battle.

We used low value cars, but even tanks slugging it out would have benefitted as a few inches of movement could neutralise someone "pillboxing".

Small isn't necessarily bad. It just forces you to be more creative.

In fluff terms it would be a very inexpensive arena to build and maintain. I was always concerned in RP terms how these places turn a profit, the smaller the arena, the less paying public you need. Those massive arenas need huge crowds every night. I don't see how anything other than major cities could support one.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:45 AM   #12
jimmylogan
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
I have run an arena drawn out on a single sheet of A4 in the past.

Small isn't necessarily bad. It just forces you to be more creative.

In fluff terms it would be a very inexpensive arena to build and maintain. I was always concerned in RP terms how these places turn a profit, the smaller the arena, the less paying public you need. Those massive arenas need huge crowds every night. I don't see how anything other than major cities could support one.
All very interesting, and I ran a recent PBEM (Slack) where the arena was much smaller than I anticipated at first. The players LOVED it!
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:16 AM   #13
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

(Disclaimer: I'll be building at 2x, and the previous arena is at 2x, but to save everyone doing the math will continue talking in 1x measurements since that's more common)

By popular demand, I've put the graph-paper sketch here.

Sketch Legend:
  • Scale: 1 square = 1"
  • Solid Lines: Obstacles or Walls [with one exception]
  • Dashed lines (horizontal / vertical): Cuts to create floor tiles
  • Hash marks outside arena: Cuts to create "fence" blocks; this is where the 6" increment limitation comes from, I'm ardent about doing exactly two 'retaining wall' pieces: edges and corners. Did varying sizes in the past, it's more trouble than it's worth during setup and teardown.
  • Little rectangle with a C inside: Car, for a sense of scale
  • Dashed diagonal lines at the middle of each wall: possible location of additional obstacles to tighten it up a bit.
  • Plus sign: Exact center of the arena
  • Single dots: halfway between point of diamond and outside wall
  • WTF-ery around lower left obstacle: Playing with different shapes to get one that feels right. All four will be the same when it's actually made, but those give me an idea of what my options are.
  • Gate placement: Currently undecided. I'm waiting to see how the obstacles shake out.

What has me a little nervous is that the paths are a lot more spacious than my previous designs. I see 4"-6" wide paths and wonder if I've over-compensated for the last design being too tight in places [action shots of its first convention here]. They were great for scraping off a pursuer, but absolutely fatal if you were off by even a little.

The car design for the players steals pretty liberally from Magesmiley's con-design philosophy. 10mph/120mph, a LLas in a turret, an Autocannon on the nose, a roll cage to take some of the bite out of crashes, meaty tires, a relatively low HC [3 + spoiler], and just enough armor (15 sides, 10 top/bottom) for a solid hit from the big boy to scare players into protecting that side.
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Last edited by TheAmishStig; 03-22-2018 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:40 PM   #14
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

The paths looks reasonable. You might go with the gates in the center of each side. The walls plus the center column would block LOS pretty well.

That said, that's a lot of cuts and pieces.

A piece of advice from my arena building: unless storage space is a huge issue, fewer pieces to assemble is a huge plus. Right now you're talking at least 36 pieces. And that has a lot of set up time cost hidden in it.

Looking at your diagram, if you made the center column detachable and put the gates in the middle of the sides, you could permanently mount the inner and outer walls (make them the same height) and build your arena in 4 pieces, each roughly two feet square. You could stack them using a piece of foam insulation between each board for more compact storage (this is how I store Rainbow Bay).
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:57 PM   #15
josephrey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: on the road!! check out www.chingchingwong.com to see where we currently are. :)
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

Ooooo, based on that arena you already built, could you create a series of shapes that would allow you to add and remove walls and obstacles as the arena needed? Say the shapes/floor tiles are 1/4" tall, and the walls/obstacles are 1 or 2" tall.

Kinda like this:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycgdtpk4

Ah, but it looks like you've already done something like that? The "base" is just a shallow box, and you can dump in the shapes and make the arena you want? Since there's nowhere for them to go, the obstacles are "locked" in place, but can still be removed if you need to get a turning key in there? Apologies if that's the case and you've mentioned that in a previous post.

EDIT: (Sorry, I selected the preview option for tinyurl, so you'll have to click it twice. First click shows the original google image url.)

Last edited by josephrey; 03-22-2018 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:22 PM   #16
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magesmiley View Post
The paths looks reasonable. You might go with the gates in the center of each side. The walls plus the center column would block LOS pretty well.

That said, that's a lot of cuts and pieces.

A piece of advice from my arena building: unless storage space is a huge issue, fewer pieces to assemble is a huge plus. Right now you're talking at least 36 pieces. And that has a lot of set up time cost hidden in it.

Looking at your diagram, if you made the center column detachable and put the gates in the middle of the sides, you could permanently mount the inner and outer walls (make them the same height) and build your arena in 4 pieces, each roughly two feet square. You could stack them using a piece of foam insulation between each board for more compact storage (this is how I store Rainbow Bay).
I don't have the transport space to go with bigger chunks...it needs to fit in the trunk of a Honda Fit, with 3 other people in the car (and all their stuff for a 3-day weekend). Realistically, that means it needs to break down into roughly a 20-gallon storage bin.

Setup is a necessary evil, because of the breakdown requirements; the worst of it is shimming the tables at the events where I have a pair of rectangles instead of a circle. This time I'm being smart at least...placing the obstacles based on the tiles, instead of making tiles based on the obstacles. The old one had 10 unique shapes, both squares and rectangles; the new one has 3...4x4, 8x8, and 12x12.

What do you think, should I mock it up with the mid-wall triangles, or is that too tight? Putting them in would let me put the garages in the corners, aimed down the walls...a nice little 8-player setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by josephrey View Post
Ooooo, based on that arena you already built, could you create a series of shapes that would allow you to add and remove walls and obstacles as the arena needed? Say the shapes/floor tiles are 1/4" tall, and the walls/obstacles are 1 or 2" tall.
That was my original goal when I built that one, yeah! Pop out one tile, drop another one in, boom, changed the layout. The execution was pretty lacking, though...it didn't work well unless it was on a round table, there were a bunch of odd shapes that had to go in specific places [because I placed the obstacles first, rather than designing the tiles first...and because my saw was crooked, so none of the right angles were actually right angles], all kinds of headaches that could have been avoided if I'd engineered it better.

The obstacles / walls / etc are glued in place; I never did find an acceptable solution for popping the obstacles themselves on/off the tiles. Either the holes would wear / develop play, or the tile would need a bunch of holes for different positions and look awful, or it wouldn't align quite right creating tear-outs, etc...so those are permanently fastened. I've got enough room in the box for a couple extra tiles, so it wasn't a huge deal.

The arena floor is 1/2" MDF, the walls are 1x3 pine, and the obstacles are either 2x4 Fir (small reddish) or 2x6 Pine (large yellowish).
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:42 PM   #17
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
I don't have the transport space to go with bigger chunks...it needs to fit in the trunk of a Honda Fit, with 3 other people in the car (and all their stuff for a 3-day weekend). Realistically, that means it needs to break down into roughly a 20-gallon storage bin.

Setup is a necessary evil, because of the breakdown requirements; the worst of it is shimming the tables at the events where I have a pair of rectangles instead of a circle. This time I'm being smart at least...placing the obstacles based on the tiles, instead of making tiles based on the obstacles. The old one had 10 unique shapes, both squares and rectangles; the new one has 3...4x4, 8x8, and 12x12.

What do you think, should I mock it up with the mid-wall triangles, or is that too tight? Putting them in would let me put the garages in the corners, aimed down the walls...a nice little 8-player setup.
I'd mock it up. The channels in Rainbow Bay are tighter than that.

I'm a bit unsure on doing 8 players in the corners. Maybe if you put a small (2" @ Classic scale) square in the corner instead of the angled wall. Putting them between 6" and 7" from the outside walls seems like a better choice. to me.

If they were the 4 pieces I proposed, you could also stack one upside down and slightly offset on top of another (so that the walls and inner walls rest on the floor of the other one and the outer walls are next to each other), call it about 30" square and only about 3-4" thick per pair. On their side I think they'd fit pretty well in the back of the cargo area. Maybe better than a bin.

And I totally get the shimming. It's not quite as bad with larger boards I've found, as you can often get them to straddle the worse places.

(Also, I'd suggest an RR or ATG instead of an AC for the cars - give the players a real choice of accuracy vs. damage when firing from the front arc).
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:42 PM   #18
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

I ended up having to leave it 2 concentric rings instead of 3...I'm running out of time.

But, it's almost there...gotta wait for my dust mask to dry out, there's so much water vapor in it it's dripping.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:05 PM   #19
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
I'm running out of time.
I can seriously relate to that. I had major issues with paint adhesion on KEAR that forced a major repaint only a week and a half before a convention.

What I've found helps is to build up your gear over a few years, adding to it and/or improving somewhat every convention. Although adding a new arena is a major undertaking.
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:33 PM   #20
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Opinions wanted: Arena Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magesmiley View Post
I can seriously relate to that. I had major issues with paint adhesion on KEAR that forced a major repaint only a week and a half before a convention.

What I've found helps is to build up your gear over a few years, adding to it and/or improving somewhat every convention. Although adding a new arena is a major undertaking.
This'll be year...3? I know it's the 4th iteration of the arena, 3rd for the support materials, and about 8th for the car, but I can't remember if the posterboard arena and the foamcore arena were in the same year or not.

Hopefully now that my squares are square and the joints are tight this will end up being the last ground-up rebuild, and from here on out it can be building on that base. The big question mark is whether the magnets will end up being strong enough to do what I need them to do (hold the fence together reasonably well).
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