One-Handed Reach 1, 2* Spear

[Beriogelir]

I am trying to find the stats for a spear that can be wielded in one hand and is Reach 1, 2* while wielded in one hand. It would be nice if the spear is ST 10 or less and could be thrown, too, but those aren't deal-breakers.

Basically, I'm looking for a spear that a medieval warrior can wield alongside a shield, can be used to strike against an opponent right in front of him, and is long enough to reach an opponent 3.5' away. From what I can discern, typical medieval spears were between 6' and 9' long, so a soldier gripping the spear halfway up the haft would have between 3' and 4.5' of reach with the spear. In my mind, this translates to Reach 1, 2* in GURPS terms, especially with the arm slightly extended. See the Saxons on the right in this image from the Bayeux Tapestry for a depiction of what I am talking about.

Here's the thing: I can't find any spears in the GURPS books that actually fit my needs. Javelins and short spears are too short (Reach 1). Spears only have Reach 1* when wielded one-handed. Long Spears are Reach 2, 3* when wielded one-handed. Heavy Spears and Pikes cannot be wielded one-handed.

Stretching the rules in LTC2, I can turn a Long Spear into a thr+2 imp, Reach 1, 2*, Parry 0, ST 10, one-handed weapon that can be thrown, costs $50, and weights 3 lbs (I can even turn a Hatchet into an approximation of a spear that does what I want if I wanted to, but that's just silly). If such a spear existed, though, why would anyone ever take the regular old Spear?

I've seen similar issues brought up elsewhere, but never resolved satisfactorily. Part of the problem appears to be an inconsistency between the Spear and the Long Spear - the Spear has a reduced Reach when used with one hand, whereas the Long Spear does not.

I know I can just create a house rule, but if I can find something within the RAW, I would much prefer that.

Any suggestions?

[vicky_molokh]

Have you tried holding the spear in a Reversed Grip (MA111), which reduces Reach 2 weapons by 1? Oh wait, at a minimum you need a Rules Exemption to do that.

[Rolando]

The reason I see for a spear to be reach 1 when one handed is because you need to grab it at about the middle of the spear to have it balanced and useful in combat, you end with an about 3' long pointy stick.

A "broadsword" have a length of 3' to 4' of blade and have reach 1 too.

Holding the spear by the extreme end will increase the reach but you will need both hands to be able to fight with it effectively.

Combat is complex and just been able to hold a pole is not enough to count as been able to fight with it.

In the Bayeux Tapestry it is clear the way of holding a spear one handed for combat in an overhead posture, it clearly have short reach.

If you want to increase the reach you may allow some techniques, like lunge, to be used with spear, that will increase reach.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Beriogelir

I am trying to find the stats for a spear that can be wielded in one hand and is Reach 1, 2* while wielded in one hand. It would be nice if the spear is ST 10 or less and could be thrown, too, but those aren't deal-breakers.

Basically, I'm looking for a spear that a medieval warrior can wield alongside a shield, can be used to strike against an opponent right in front of him, and is long enough to reach an opponent 3.5' away. From what I can discern, typical medieval spears were between 6' and 9' long, so a soldier gripping the spear halfway up the haft would have between 3' and 4.5' of reach with the spear. In my mind, this translates to Reach 1, 2* in GURPS terms, especially with the arm slightly extended. See the Saxons on the right in this image from the Bayeux Tapestry for a depiction of what I am talking about.

Here's the thing: I can't find any spears in the GURPS books that actually fit my needs. Javelins and short spears are too short (Reach 1). Spears only have Reach 1* when wielded one-handed. Long Spears are Reach 2, 3* when wielded one-handed. Heavy Spears and Pikes cannot be wielded one-handed.

Stretching the rules in LTC2, I can turn a Long Spear into a thr+2 imp, Reach 1, 2*, Parry 0, ST 10, one-handed weapon that can be thrown, costs $50, and weights 3 lbs (I can even turn a Hatchet into an approximation of a spear that does what I want if I wanted to, but that's just silly). If such a spear existed, though, why would anyone ever take the regular old Spear?

I've seen similar issues brought up elsewhere, but never resolved satisfactorily. Part of the problem appears to be an inconsistency between the Spear and the Long Spear - the Spear has a reduced Reach when used with one hand, whereas the Long Spear does not.

I know I can just create a house rule, but if I can find something within the RAW, I would much prefer that.

Any suggestions?

When I fight with a one-handed spear in my viking martial arts class, shield in the other hand, I use a sliding technique to reach out. I thrust with the spear, and let it slide in my hand until it reaches the bottom of the haft. I then have to yank and recover it back (Ready maneuver).

The sliding thing with the hand takes practice but is fairly strong. I'd be tempted to model it as a Committed Attack that is Determined and uses the "attack and fly out" option, but with a 1-point perk that lets you basically attack at full skill to Reach 2, *without* moving your feet and actually attacking and flying out in time-of-the-body.

The penalties to defense (can't parry with the spear) make complete sense in this case, and the fact that you actually are back to Reach 1 at the end of your turn without a ready is a bit cinematic, but it's awesome. In my experience, the sliding attack takes a turn, and then you recover the weapon on the next.

That'd be another way to go, which is just allow anyone with training in spear to do it, but the attack causes the weapon to become Unready. A technique at Spear-1 might do it (I think it's easier than Armed Grapple, which is at -2) and still be able to be bought off with a 1-point perk, which feels right.

[Dalzig]

All-Out Attack (Long) from MA 97 seems almost purpose made for this kind of thing.

[Beriogelir]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Have you tried holding the spear in a Reversed Grip (MA111), which reduces Reach 2 weapons by 1? Oh wait, at a minimum you need a Rules Exemption to do that.

This was my first thought - and appears to be how the gentlemen in the Bayeux Tapestry are actually fighting - but that "Long weapons are too awkward to reverse" line precludes using a Reversed Grip with a Long Spear, as far as I can tell.

Originally Posted by Rolando

The reason I see for a spear to be reach 1 when one handed is because you need to grab it at about the middle of the spear to have it balanced and useful in combat, you end with an about 3' long pointy stick.

What about a 9' spear, though? Gripping that at the middle of the spear gives you a 4.5' long pointy stick, which should be Reach 1, 2*, right?

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

When I fight with a one-handed spear in my viking martial arts class, shield in the other hand, I use a sliding technique to reach out. I thrust with the spear, and let it slide in my hand until it reaches the bottom of the haft. I then have to yank and recover it back (Ready maneuver).

The sliding thing with the hand takes practice but is fairly strong. I'd be tempted to model it as a Committed Attack that is Determined and uses the "attack and fly out" option, but with a 1-point perk that lets you basically attack at full skill to Reach 2, *without* moving your feet and actually attacking and flying out in time-of-the-body.

The penalties to defense (can't parry with the spear) make complete sense in this case, and the fact that you actually are back to Reach 1 at the end of your turn without a ready is a bit cinematic, but it's awesome. In my experience, the sliding attack takes a turn, and then you recover the weapon on the next.

That'd be another way to go, which is just allow anyone with training in spear to do it, but the attack causes the weapon to become Unready. A technique at Spear-1 might do it (I think it's easier than Armed Grapple, which is at -2) and still be able to be bought off with a 1-point perk, which feels right.

If you were fighting in formation in a shield wall, would this maneuver work, or would it ruin the integrity of the shield wall? And do you do this in an underhand or overhand grip?

As long as I've got you, how long is the spear that you use? Would it be a Spear or a Long Spear in GURPS terms? I think that viking martial arts would be just about what I am imagining here.

[Beriogelir]

Originally Posted by Dalzig

All-Out Attack (Long) from MA 97 seems almost purpose made for this kind of thing.

I was hoping to find a way to do this without sacrificing the ability to Block.

[Icelander]

I allow one-handed Spears to attack at Reach 1,2*, if one-handed Longswords and Bastard Swords can do it.

As this requires a grip further back than is good for the balance, I rule that using a one-handed Spear at Reach 2 makes it an Unbalanced weapon unless you have a shield in your other hand to steady it against.

I suppose that theoretically, the latter ought to be a specific technique, but I've never written in out. The sliding attack that Doug Cole mentions is something I'd model as a Committed Attack that is more powerful than a standard thrust made from a shield and spear stance, as in my opinion it is possible to thrust with a one-handed spear as far as with a one-handed Longsword without giving up defences.

Essentially, thrust with a spear can be made at Reach 2 as long as you are not using your other hand for something so completely unrelated that you can't prevent the spear from being overcommitted in the thrust, either with a live hand, another hand on the shaft or a shield hand.

I recognise that this is a house rule, as my suggestion of making even one-handed Spear Reach 1,2*, possibly with a Parry 0U to compensate, was rejected by the author in GURPS Low-Tech, on the grounds that it was fiddly, a change from the Basic Set and maybe that he did not feel it was necessarily any more realistic (it's been a while, I can't recall if Bill Stoddard disagreed with the rule as such or just felt it was not worth changing published rules for).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Rolando

The reason I see for a spear to be reach 1 when one handed is because you need to grab it at about the middle of the spear to have it balanced and useful in combat, you end with an about 3' long pointy stick.

There is a balance point, but most other pole weapons can accomodate some slight shifts of grip during attacks and defences, so I wouldn't limit a spear user, even one using it one-handed, to always holding it by the exact same part of the shaft. Any skilled user should be able to change his position within the hex and control time, distance and proportion, just as a fencer can, so he might, for example, slide the spear forward for an extra half foot of reach and then rest it on the shield for a fraction of a second, while adjusting his grip for a more balanced response or the next attack.

Originally Posted by Rolando

A "broadsword" have a length of 3' to 4' of blade and have reach 1 too.

The total length of GURPS 'Broadswords' is generally around three feet. A sword where the blade alone is more than 36" sounds like a GURPS 'Longsword' or 'Bastard Sword', i.e. a hand-and-a-half sword, which are weapons with Reach of 1,2.

Originally Posted by Rolando

In the Bayeux Tapestry it is clear the way of holding a spear one handed for combat in an overhead posture, it clearly have short reach.

That posture, the overarm grip, is a specific GURPS combat option, called the Reverse Grip, and it does indeed reduce Spear (or any other weapon) Reach. The basic combat stat listed on the tables are meant to be for a underarm grip.

[Beriogelir]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I allow one-handed Spears to attack at Reach 1,2*, if one-handed Longswords and Bastard Swords can do it.

As this requires a grip further back than is good for the balance, I rule that using a one-handed Spear at Reach 2 makes it an Unbalanced weapon unless you have a shield in your other hand to steady it against.

So, to clarify, when wielded with one hand, do you make the Spear Reach 1, 2*, Parry 0U, or is it Reach 1, 2*, Parry 0 with a note stating that it is an Unbalanced weapon only when used at Reach 2?

I agree completely with the comparison with Longswords. If a Longsword with a 40" blade is Reach 1, 2, then I don't see any reason why an 8' spear held such that 40" of the haft and the spearhead extend beyond your hand wouldn't also be Reach 1, 2.

I was just hoping to find a RAW solution so as to avoid any of my rules-lawyer players getting upset. I don't want to risk miming a spear-and-shield fighter with a trashcan lid and a shower curtain rod or something in order to get my point across.