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Old 02-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #41
corwyn
 
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Exactly. You can tell somebody with a reach 1 axe or reach 1, 2 rapier or reach 1-3 halberd to attack themselves, but their lack of a reach C weapon is going to mean they do something worthless like spend their turn trying to turn their sword around to fall on it, or just punch themselves in the helmet. So it'll waste a turn but not accomplish a great deal. This is especially salient in the DFRPG (as opposed to GURPS), where the rules don't offer a plethora of options for using weapons in close.
You can hit yourself with a crit fail, even with a Reach 3 polearm that you can't hit a guy in the hex adjacent to you with. It seems to me that if you can do this by accident, you should be able to do it on purpose. Certainly, if I held a sword in my hand, it would not be difficult to hit myself in the leg or foot.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:53 AM   #42
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
Certainly, if I held a sword in my hand, it would not be difficult to hit myself in the leg or foot.
Or head, or off arm, etc.

Now a proper polearm? That's a lot more difficult.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:20 PM   #43
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

No such reach based limits apply to "attack him", though. Or attacks on yourself with reach C weapons, or low bulk ranged weapons. Shooting yourself in a limb or extremity with almost any firearm shouldn't take a Ready. None of these these things seem to logically result in "they waste their turn but nothing happens".
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:44 AM   #44
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
No such reach based limits apply to "attack him", though. Or attacks on yourself with reach C weapons, or low bulk ranged weapons. Shooting yourself in a limb or extremity with almost any firearm shouldn't take a Ready. None of these these things seem to logically result in "they waste their turn but nothing happens".
They do, though.

The target doesn’t, as far as I can tell, get a particular sense of urgency outside of needing to start right now, and most of the examples you named are things that people would generally take multiple second to do right. Unless they’re a Heroic Archer, they’ll pretty much always aim before they shoot.

Attacking their friend, who just heard the shouted instruction, probably results in a successful parry, if not a simple Move to set up the attack.

The spell results in immediate action, but not in hurrying up.

Do we have firearms in DFRPG, though?
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:25 AM   #45
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
You can hit yourself with a crit fail, even with a Reach 3 polearm that you can't hit a guy in the hex adjacent to you with. It seems to me that if you can do this by accident, you should be able to do it on purpose.
I'm not so sure of that, I've certainly managed to produce surprisingly good outcomes on occasion - if I could do that well *on purpose* they'd be expected, not surprising.

I've sometimes thought what the restriction on a command ought to be is "something you can do without thinking about it". The potentially contentious issue there is the list of allowable commands wouldn't be the same for all targets - everybody has different stuff they've done so often they don't need to think about it anymore - or even all situations - "go home" would work differently in a place you've gone home from often than when you are lost somewhere unfamiliar. Most people couldn't be commanded to "attack him" - they'd normally think about how or why before they attacked somebody - but if the target was a berserker....
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:48 AM   #46
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

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Originally Posted by ArchonShiva View Post
They do, though.

The target doesn’t, as far as I can tell, get a particular sense of urgency outside of needing to start right now, and most of the examples you named are things that people would generally take multiple second to do right. Unless they’re a Heroic Archer, they’ll pretty much always aim before they shoot.

Attacking their friend, who just heard the shouted instruction, probably results in a successful parry, if not a simple Move to set up the attack.

The spell results in immediate action, but not in hurrying up.
First, this isn't what Kromm said earlier, he said that these commands just result in confusion. Secondly there are certainly situations where attacking yourself or a buddy is just an Attack manuever.

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Do we have firearms in DFRPG, though?
No, but I wish they'd stop moving these threads out of GURPS for some reason. Why is this suddenly a DFRPG thread?
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:31 AM   #47
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
First, this isn't what Kromm said earlier, he said that these commands just result in confusion. Secondly there are certainly situations where attacking yourself or a buddy is just an Attack manuever.
1. I don’t think there’s much functional difference between spending a second aiming at your friend and spending a second in confusion. 2. Of course, and in these cases it should work (likely resulting in a parry, as I’ve said).

I doubt “Attack yourself” would get past the confusion stage, however. A command of “Drop down” from an officer or a fellow soldier sounds like a perfectly valid reason to suddenly drop down. Even “Kill him” is a common movie trope when a spy or assassin is suddenly spotted. But I fail to see “Attack yourself” making much sense as an immediate command that would result in anything but a double-take. Then again, magic, so it’s your call.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:33 PM   #48
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

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Originally Posted by ArchonShiva View Post
1. I don’t think there’s much functional difference between spending a second aiming at your friend and spending a second in confusion. 2. Of course, and in these cases it should work (likely resulting in a parry, as I’ve said).
Why would it result necessarily in a successful parry especially in DFRPG where it can't be Telegraphic?

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I doubt “Attack yourself” would get past the confusion stage, however. A command of “Drop down” from an officer or a fellow soldier sounds like a perfectly valid reason to suddenly drop down. Even “Kill him” is a common movie trope when a spy or assassin is suddenly spotted. But I fail to see “Attack yourself” making much sense as an immediate command that would result in anything but a double-take. Then again, magic, so it’s your call.
Is there a reason from the text that indicates that command need to correspond to existing drills? Wouldn't that render it ineffective against untrained combatants?

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Old 10-01-2022, 09:06 AM   #49
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Default Re: [Spells] Why is Command a blocking spell, and how does it work?

My two cents: if it's intended as an aural analogue to Fascinate, "kill yourself" is a legitimate command, but should be balanced out by making it a Regular or Blocking spell so that you have to pay extra for high-SZ enemies.

Anyone who can be successfully Commanded to "kill yourself" for N FP could also be Charmed for 3*N FP. That seems balanced, since one round of awkward CC self-damage may or may not even take an enemy out of the fight, whereas Charming them converts them into ally for a minute. (And Loyalty converts them into a slightly less fanatical ally for hours, which may be useful for infiltrations, future fights, etc.)
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