1980s American Cars, Guns, Gadgets and Consumer Goods [Atmosphere, look, minutiae]

[woodchuck]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Do you have any impressions of how big a town needed to be in the 80s to have more than one national chain store and/or more than one national chain fast food restaurant?

Some small towns would have a Sears Catalog Store, basically a small showroom for appliances and maybe a few items in stock, you'd have to order anything else from the catalog. They might have an appliance repairman too.

[Kabufu]

It is my understanding that the general Tacticool phenomenon of heavily accessorized guns didn't start in earnest until the very late nineties or early 2000's. The military didn't start widely distributing optics until Iraq/Afghanistan. You can see an example from Hollywood in Black Hawk Down, where the Delta operators have red dots and flashlights, but the Rangers all just have iron sights.

The picatinny rail didn't start getting adopted until 1994. The Mk. 23 pistol had a proprietary rail system when it was adopted in 1991. Most weapons with an accessory had a mounting system specific to that weapon and accessory. Most hunters would probably just have a rifle with a scope.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by mr beer

Maybe not so great on specifics but general stuff I would do for this would be:

- Read (or re-read) some Stephen King books, since he sets so much of his stuff in Maine, starting in the 60s onwards IIRC; also the atmosphere is generally creepy of course and may provide ideas.

Good idea.

Originally Posted by mr beer

For throwing in general background info, check the following:

- Openings dates and domestic box office take for movies in 1988 are as follows. This seems more useful than the more retrospective look at most popular movies of 1988 that you'd get from IMDB : http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=1988

Thanks. I see 'Die Hard' is hot at the time of play. Agent Corelli might be willing to relax his policy of not liking anything new in light of his player's rabid 'Die Hard' fanboisism.

Originally Posted by mr beer

- Billboard Hot 100 single for 1988 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billbo...ingles_of_1988

- List of albums hitting gold, platinum etc. at the time: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...on-anita-baker

I'd seen the Year-End Hot 100 Singles and used them to make playlists for the adventure, but the second source is new to me. Thanks a lot, it looks useful. I'll certainly add songs from the soundtrack of 'Dirty Dancing' to Agent Estevez' Walkman.

Originally Posted by mr beer

The Cosby Show continued its multi-year domination as the most watched TV show at the time. Bill Cosby is considered the living embodiment of family rectitude, something I would play for laughs given the chance, that's just me though. It's about to be overtaken by Roseanne, the allegedly hilarious sitcom of a loud fat harpy who terrorises her long-suffering family. This kicked off in Oct 1988 but hasn't yet penetrated the national psyche.

Bill Cosby, check.

[Icelander]

Does anyone know what real world brands or models exist in 1988 that represent, respectively:

a) The 5 lbs. 'Night Sight' (TL7) on p. HT156.

b) The 3.5 lbs. 'Improved Night Sight' (TL7) on p. HT156.

c) The 2 lbs. 'Improved Night Sight, Add-On' (TL7) on p. HT156.

d) The 5 lbs. 'Thermal-Imaging Sight' (TL8) on p. HT157 (this is the earliest sight mentioned in HT, where it is noted in the text that thermal-imaging sights have been available 'since the 1980s').

And does anyone know which of them, if any, were commercially available to civilians?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kabufu

It is my understanding that the general Tacticool phenomenon of heavily accessorized guns didn't start in earnest until the very late nineties or early 2000's. The military didn't start widely distributing optics until Iraq/Afghanistan. You can see an example from Hollywood in Black Hawk Down, where the Delta operators have red dots and flashlights, but the Rangers all just have iron sights.

The picatinny rail didn't start getting adopted until 1994. The Mk. 23 pistol had a proprietary rail system when it was adopted in 1991. Most weapons with an accessory had a mounting system specific to that weapon and accessory. Most hunters would probably just have a rifle with a scope.

To be sure. Various optics and mounts were theoretically available, but had not been adopted for official military issue and were extremely rare among civilian shooters. It would take a few more years for three gun and speed shooting competions to change that for well-equipped civilians, whereas military acquisition lagged years behind.

The firearms encountered by the PCs among local hunters will mostly be traditional wooden stock hunting rifles, some of them with a scope and others with iron sights, in lever- or bolt-action. Agent Frank Corelli (PC) personally hunts deer in Eastern woods with an iron-sighted Winchester 94 in .30-30 originally owned by his grandfather and has a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 with a Weaver K4 scope for longer ranges or heavier prey.

Millionaire logging baron and real-estate developer Clayborn Allen (NPC) has a favourite deer rifle, a Weatherby Mark V in .270 Weatherby Magnum, with a high-quality variable 3x-9x scope (please suggest a brand and model name, ideally American-made and preferably made before 1983, so it can have been his favourite for a while). He also has a deluxe model traditional bolt-action predator gun in .22-250 (please suggest brand and model) which has a high-quality variable 3x-9x scope with an illuminated reticle, if such a thing can be bought before 1988, otherwise fixed-power 4x scope with an illuminated reticle (suggestions sought, US-made preferable, but not essential). I'm also considering a .17 Remington gun for him (suggestions for a luxurious rifle?), to take foxes and bobcats, as well as coyotes at close range, and it is that gun which might have an ultra-high-tech (for the time) night vision scope.

His long-time rival and frenemy, Phillip Willette (NPC), is less snobbish when it comes to guns. His predator gun is a Savage Model 24 combination gun in .22 Hornet/20-gauge, with a compact and robust 4x fixed-power scope (suggest type?). He also owns a ca late 50s vintage deer rifle in .30-06 (or some other popular 'Old School' caliber), which might be a Marlin 336, Savage Model 99 or maybe an early Savage Model 110, and an economical, but classic hunting shotgun bought used in 1950.

Allen's perennial hangers-on and yes-men, his lawyer Ricky Sommiers (NPC) and the local bank-manager, George Bolton (NPC), require fairly economical choices for predator guns. They'll be looking for something that combines in one gun/scope combination the ability to take foxes in the evening without damaging their fur and to take coyotes both at night and day (probably using light sources at night). Both might also own shotguns and deer rifles. Bolton will favour a traditional look for his guns, ideally something that looks classy without going over a middle-class budget, whereas Sommiers doesn't care about looks, only ease of use (he's a subpar hunter, but hates to lose).

It's primarily for other guests that I'm considering high-tech optics. Dr. Harvey Allen (NPC), Clayborn's brother, and his doctor friend have recently bought several imported military looking 'black rifles' in .223 Remington for predator hunting. And Amos Burrell (NPC), an old friend of Allen's from the South, owns a Colt AR-15 type rifle with a 16" barrel and is just the sort of person to want (and have) the cutting-edge in military-looking hardware for his toys.

Allen will also have several loaner guns for guests who don't have a predator gun for foxes, bobcats and coyotes. I'm looking for ideas on those as well, but suspect he might have available semi-automatics, bolt-action and lever-action guns. Some are specifically bought to suit the tastes of friends who don't travel with guns, others are meant to equip politicians or businessmen who might not be familiar with many types of firearms.

[Litvyak]

high-quality variable 3x-9x scope (please suggest a brand and model name, ideally American-made and preferably made before 1983, so it can have been his favourite for a while).

From the 1975 Gun Gigest annual (pricing is in 1975 dollars and including only to compare the relative prices between scopes):

Browning Wide Angle 3-9 $104.95
Bushnell Scopechief IV 3-9 $110.50
Bushnell Scopechief V 3-9 $110.50 (Battery powered reticle)
Leupold Vari-X II 3-9 $112.50
Lyman All-American 3-9 $109.50
Nickel Supra Vari-Power 2.5-9 $250.00
Nickel Supra Vari-Power 3-10 $225.00
Leatherwood Bros. Auto/Range 3-9 $129.50
Redfield Traditional 3-9 $99.60
Redfield Widefield 3-9 $122.80
Tasco Omni-View 3-9 $139.95
Weatherby Premier Standard 3-9 $94.50
Weatherby Premier Wide Angle 3-9 $109.50
Williams Guide Line 3-9 $130.00

[acrosome]

4

Originally Posted by Icelander

Does anyone know what real world brands or models exist in 1988 that represent, respectively:

a) The 5 lbs. 'Night Sight' (TL7) on p. HT156.

b) The 3.5 lbs. 'Improved Night Sight' (TL7) on p. HT156.

c) The 2 lbs. 'Improved Night Sight, Add-On' (TL7) on p. HT156.

d) The 5 lbs. 'Thermal-Imaging Sight' (TL8) on p. HT157 (this is the earliest sight mentioned in HT, where it is noted in the text that thermal-imaging sights have been available 'since the 1980s').

And does anyone know which of them, if any, were commercially available to civilians?

It's important to recognize that very few of these are in civilian hands in 1988.

The dual-tube AN/PVS-5 is the night vision goggle that I had in the US Army in 1989. The single-tube AN/PVS-7 was available since 1985 but wasn't common. My unit uses the AN/PVS-7 now.

The AN/PVS-4 was the standard "starlight scope" for mounting on weapons at the time. Wikipedia says it weighs 4 lbs, so I suspect it is the "improved night sight." The earlier, heavier one is probably the Vietnam-era AN/PVS-2, but the weight I find for it is more like 7 lbs. That might be with all accessories or something, though.

For the add-on sight I think of the AN/PVS-22, but that's post-1988 by a long shot. I'm not sure if there were such things in 1988. Maybe?

IIRC the TL7 thermal sights that date back to the 1980s were not really meant for mounting on personal weapons- they were huge, and meant for reconnaissance teams.

[adm]

One source of guns to consider would be the Civilian Marksmanship Program. This is a government program that sell older service weapons to civilians, WW I through WW II firearms are commonly what they sell. The M1917 Enfield, M1903/M1903A3, and the M1 Garand, all in .30-06, being the common weapons sold below cost. They were fairly common hunting weapons from the 1950's through the 1980's and are still often seen, I have M1903/M1903A3. Someone will have these, and they would make ideal loaner guns.

[sjard]

Originally Posted by acrosome

IIRC the TL7 thermal sights that date back to the 1980s were not really meant for mounting on personal weapons- they were huge, and meant for reconnaissance teams.

That would make sense. When I first heard about thermal sights in the late 80s, they were large (18"x20"x10" box) tripod mounted things, requiring liquid nitrogen to work.

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by sjard

That would make sense. When I first heard about thermal sights in the late 80s, they were large (18"x20"x10" box) tripod mounted things, requiring liquid nitrogen to work.

Yes- as were the ones our surveillance teams had when I was in Germany in 1990.

PS- I have a CMP Garand, M1903a3, and M1 carbine. The carbine was my grandfather's. Price when he bought it from CMP= $17.50 plus $2.50 shipping and handling. If you want an "assault weapon" that is likely to be found in civilian hands the M1 carbine fits the bill, especially with a 30-round magazine. (I seem to recall that they were often seen on the hands of Bad Guys on the old SWAT TV show.) They are also notoriously easy to convert to full-auto by the simple expedient of filing the sear down a bit, and in fact will often turn full-auto spontaneously when the sear gets worn through normal use. In such a state they cannot fire in semi-auto. Conversely, great steps were taken to ensure that the many civilian AR15s could not be so easily converted- for instance Colt sold them with different pin positions and sizes so that only Colt civilian trigger groups could be installed.

There were also a lot of non-USGI M1 clones made by various companies (Auto-Ordnance is one) and a vigorous aftermarket in parts and accessories. The non-USGI magazines of that era kind of suck, by the way, and should get a malf penalty, especially the 30-round ones. They're notorious.

I think that I just might kill for a Rock-Ola M1 carbine. An IBM one would be a close second, with Saginaw Steering, National Postage Meter, or Underwood very distant thirds. (My grandfather's is a ten-a-penny Winchester.) A Bad Guy screaming "rock-n-roll!" because his M1 was made by the Rock-Ola Jukebox Corporation would be a nice touch...