Scales of maps and play

[Dave Crowell]

I was inspired by the cartoon in The Ogre Book with an adventuring arty standing in front of a sign reading "Beware of the Ogre" and saying "After that nest of gargoyles this should be a pushover" while a set of very large treadmarks recede into the distance...

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Dave Crowell

I was inspired by the cartoon in The Ogre Book with an adventuring arty standing in front of a sign reading "Beware of the Ogre" and saying "After that nest of gargoyles this should be a pushover" while a set of very large treadmarks recede into the distance...

I liked that one too! ;-)

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by JLV

I liked that one too! ;-)

JLV, isn't that idea just so amazing! I think Dave has just provided me a Genesis Spark for another "Earth" to spring forth within Cidri.

Good thing "Cidri is BIG." LOL!!

The early pages of TFT:ITL describes, yet only "suggests" things about the Mnoren and Technological Artifacts; but this, THIS, is something CONCRETE and with reference!

I had three completely different Adventure Hooks/Scenarios spring into my head fully formed, with the visual I shared about the Orcs on patrol in a worn and weather-beaten GEV.

I love when this happens as the ideas/dynamics/implications pour forth practically faster than i can get my thumb-nail ideas down on paper.

Also, think about the great potential for SJ product cross-over exposure between ORGE and TFT as well!

I can see taking the OGRE/GEV thing, AND tossing in the whole CHITIN:I HYMENOPTERANS thing, along with the Night of the Living Dead Zombie thing, AND maybe even the Clone-Master, the Jellies, the Terminators with Arnie Goldman, from KUNG-FU 2100 into one Archaic/Future "Destroyed Cities of the Future" apocalyptic landscape for TFT with the Swords and Sorcery, and flesh this all out as an alternate "Earth" where the TFT:SECURITY STATION premise would naturally exist in; as a potential Gateway Adventure with a little Background re-edit for continuity and reference placement within the TFT product-line on-the-whole.

What I see is edging on an Edgar Rice Burroughs, John Carter of Mars world, or more so, like Lin Carter's Thongor of Lemuria world - BUT, the cool part and the big difference is: the GAME WORLD CULTURAL REFERENCES are already in place - with TFT at the base.

WOW! THIS IS CONCEPTUALLY HUGE!

See what I mean! Riff.. Riff... Riff... Riff.... Riff... flow... flow... flow... flow... flow!

I wonder if this is what Jack "The King" Kirby felt when he suddenly hit on the idea and vision of Galactus and The Sliver Surfer for inclusion into the world of The Fantastic Four... and he couldn't stop rendering his stream-of-consciousness at his drawing desk, until he dropped at 4pm the next afternoon from total exhaustion.

The Levee has BURST OPEN and the creative waters GUSH FORTH!

Orcs with GEV's, Dragons fighting OGRE's, Deserted Cities filled with Zombies... where the radiation levels are high, and the available water is low... AND YOUR CHARACTER is caught in the middle of it all, and armed with a sword and shield.

I can hear Alice Cooper singing: "Welcome to my Nightmare"...

Got get typing this TFT vision out; FAST!

JK

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. Are you talking hex and counter war game rules for fighting at higher scales?

I was replying to part 2 of the first post in the thread:

Originally Posted by larsdangly

... 2) Personally, I feel the idea of self-similar rules across different scales should be developed in a more concrete way to encourage/support modes of play besides combat - particularly exploration at the scales of dungeons and challenging overland travel. E.g., I would prefer that the basic structure of the TFT turn (initiative/select from 3 movement options/perform 1 action from a list permitted to your movement option) applied at all scales, and that the time and distance scales allow you to just use your MA as your rate of movement in hexes/turn at every scale. It would take, like 5-10 pages of rules to lay out how this would work at a huge range of scales of play, and would support a lot of different activities that are currently relegated to the usual 'make it up as you go along' fall back plan. What do you make of this idea?

I was saying that I'd like to have more detailed rules for handling larger scales, but that I didn't see how that would seem to work very well to simply scale up the tactical system (at least not to apply it to entire days of travel).

Mainly larger scales are useful for travel, but can be quite interesting when there is some relevant action involving the details of movements that are at larger scale than Melee hexes, but it does start to be up to the GM's ability to track what's going on, and possibly more system details could help.

For travel, it'd be nice to have more detail on the effects of encumbrance, injury, horses & other animals, wagons, carts, forced marches, traveling more than 8 hours, at night, in various weather. And how far you can see things in what conditions, avoiding being seen, foraging and hunting, tracking, pursuits, those sorts of things.

It took a few years' GM experience before I started doing it, but eventually I started fairly often considering what's going on within a 12.5km hex, sketching the nearby terrain and tracking the movements of various groups, so there can be some interesting play at that scale, usually about seeing things and avoiding being noticed at a distance and so on. In theory I think there could be some nice suggestions and guidelines for handling such situations. At least, I'd like it, but I'm sort of an edge-case audience. ;-)

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by Skarg

For travel, it'd be nice to have more detail on the effects of encumbrance, injury, horses & other animals, wagons, carts, forced marches, traveling more than 8 hours, at night, in various weather. And how far you can see things in what conditions, avoiding being seen, foraging and hunting, tracking, pursuits, those sorts of things.

At least, I'd like it, but I'm sort of an edge-case audience. ;-)

Exactly where my thoughts are as well regarding what is really needed to expand the scope to large-scale campaign play.

JK

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

JLV, isn't that idea just so amazing! I think Dave has just provided me a Genesis Spark for another "Earth" to spring forth within Cidri.

Good thing "Cidri is BIG." LOL!!

The early pages of TFT:ITL describes, yet only "suggests" things about the Mnoren and Technological Artifacts; but this, THIS, is something CONCRETE and with reference!

I had three completely different Adventure Hooks/Scenarios spring into my head fully formed, with the visual I shared about the Orcs on patrol in a worn and weather-beaten GEV.

I love when this happens as the ideas/dynamics/implications pour forth practically faster than i can get my thumb-nail ideas down on paper.

Also, think about the great potential for SJ product cross-over exposure between ORGE and TFT as well!

I can see taking the OGRE/GEV thing, AND tossing in the whole CHITIN:I HYMENOPTERANS thing, along with the Night of the Living Dead Zombie thing, AND maybe even the Clone-Master, the Jellies, the Terminators with Arnie Goldman, from KUNG-FU 2100 into one Archaic/Future "Destroyed Cities of the Future" apocalyptic landscape for TFT with the Swords and Sorcery, and flesh this all out as an alternate "Earth" where the TFT:SECURITY STATION premise would naturally exist in; as a potential Gateway Adventure with a little Background re-edit for continuity and reference placement within the TFT product-line on-the-whole.

What I see is edging on an Edgar Rice Burroughs, John Carter of Mars world, or more so, like Lin Carter's Thongor of Lemuria world - BUT, the cool part and the big difference is: the GAME WORLD CULTURAL REFERENCES are already in place - with TFT at the base.

WOW! THIS IS CONCEPTUALLY HUGE!

See what I mean! Riff.. Riff... Riff... Riff.... Riff... flow... flow... flow... flow... flow!

I wonder if this is what Jack "The King" Kirby felt when he suddenly hit on the idea and vision of Galactus and The Sliver Surfer for inclusion into the world of The Fantastic Four... and he couldn't stop rendering his stream-of-consciousness at his drawing desk, until he dropped at 4pm the next afternoon from total exhaustion.

The Levee has BURST OPEN and the creative waters GUSH FORTH!

Orcs with GEV's, Dragons fighting OGRE's, Deserted Cities filled with Zombies... where the radiation levels are high, and the available water is low... AND YOUR CHARACTER is caught in the middle of it all, and armed with a sword and shield.

I can hear Alice Cooper singing: "Welcome to my Nightmare"...

Got get typing this TFT vision out; FAST!

JK

Hey Jim. I ran several TFT planetary romance campaigns; it worked fine. That’s sorta what your campaign sounds like.

[Terquem]

I have problems with numbers. I think being exposed to Traveller at an early age, didn’t help.

So, when I start talking about “hex sizes” and such things, I get very particular about the idea of “Scale”

My playing surface for games of Melee is a 17”x22” sheet of paper I created in AutoCad (2004) which is printed with a hex pattern identical to the map sheet provided with the original game

My figures (Units) for combat encounters are Lego Minifigs

If we assume that Minifigs are approximately 1:48 scale, and attached to a 4x4 round plate for stability, than for me, the ideal hex size, edge to edge, is 32mm (the diameter of the plate)

32mm at 1:48 scale is 1536mm (close enough to 1.5 meters to satisfy the Traveller player in me)

Now, if there was just a way to convert 1.5 meter hexes to five foot squares…hmmm

Also, I change the terminology and duration of the “combat round”. I call the standard Melee round a “Round Segment”, and each Round Segment is six seconds long (this satisfies the D&D player in me). One “Turn”, in my Role Playing Games, is 10 minute long, made up of ten “Rounds” and each Round is divided into ten Round Segments.

(I have written rules for 6mm sci-fi/war machine battles using 12 meter hexes (a Mega-Mega Hex), and using 12 second long “Double-Round Segment” rounds – in an effort to keep all my games connected, in a little way I suppose).

And those are my Scale parameters for playing Melee/Wizard

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Terquem

Now, if there was just a way to convert 1.5 meter hexes to five foot squares…hmmm

While I'm assuming this was tongue-in-cheek, just in case it wasn't, 1.5 meters equals 4.92 feet... So if you use the oft-proposed (but graphically displeasing) "offset squares" to simulate the hex field (like TSR did in Star Empires), then your problem is solved... ;-)

[Terquem]

yes that was a bit tongue in cheek

However, I do build models of Traveller deck plans using Legos. The standard 32mm (4 x4) square plate is my 1.5 meter square. I do not stagger them.

[Terquem]

Just got a new shipment from the Lego Pick a Brick store, 20 new round 4x4 plates (10 in black and 10 in grey)

Going to try to put the Red Dragon from kit 31032 on seven bases, and see how it looks on the board