Limit to Effect of Size Modifiers?

[Stegyre]

My search skills fail me, but I recall seeing a post about either an in-manual rule or a houserule about a limit to the effect of a small size modifier. The idea was basically that, when you're trying to hit a small fly with a large fly swatter, it is the size of the weapon, rather than the size of the target, that matters.

That may not be the most helpful description of the issue, but does it ring a bell with anyone?

[Yami Fowl]

I can't exactly direct you to the post...

But I've seen it here and I use the rule myself:
For natural attacks and weapons, assume the attack has an Area of Effect Radius of SM-11; therefore a SM+11 Broadsword would deal damage in a 2yd Radius. Therefore, anything with step under 2yd can't escape the attack if it was the centered target.


I hope that was what you are looking for...

[Bruno]

A melee attack from an attacker whos SM is 7 or more higher than yours is a Large Area injury (not 11 SM higher) (Basic set page 400).

[lexington]

There's a Kromm approved rule that you can't get more than +4 from the size difference to hit a person who is larger than you, which sounds like the same kind of thing.

[Stegyre]

Thanks. I think this was the information I was looking for.

Taking a closer look, SM does not even apply to melee attacks?! (B547) I had not realized that before.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Stegyre

Thanks. I think this was the information I was looking for.

Taking a closer look, SM does not even apply to melee attacks?! (B547) I had not realized that before.

It actually does. That's been clarified (See the FAQ - the short answer is that it's relative SM not absolute SM that's used in melee).

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Stegyre

Taking a closer look, SM does not even apply to melee attacks?! (B547) I had not realized that before.

The fact it not on a summery table does not over ride the rule deftion where it says it applies to ALL attacks.

Originally Posted by FAQ 3.4.2.23

How do I apply Size Modifiers in melee combat? Is a large SM anything other but trouble?

Normally, the size modifier of your opponent is applied to your attack roll, whatever yours is. The problem is in some cases, it causes a big problem; for example, two ants (SM -10) have practically no chance of hitting each other unless they have Brawling-20+. To correct this, a new optional rule has been introduced:

When two opponents face each other in melee combat, apply the difference in size modifiers as a bonus to the smallest attacker and as a penalty to the biggest. However, the bonus to a small opponent is limited to +4; attacking a wall ten times as big as you is no easier than hitting a wall four times as big – your reach limits where you can hit.

Note: This is an addendum to the rule in the Basic Set, not an erratum..

Very optional rule: even though being closer than 2 yards normally gives no bonus to ranged attacks, a GM may declare that being closer than 2yds gives bonuses only to offset the size penalty. That way two characters will have the same chance to hit if their proportions (size/distance between) are the same. Warning: I couldn't find a Krommquote for this one, but it solves some problems.

And before you think that big SM is always bad in combat, consider:

• You can buy high ST (including Arm ST, Lifting ST and Striking ST) and HP at -10% discount per +1 SM, up to -80% (pp.B15-16).
• When you try Intimidation skill against a smaller-sized victim, you get +1 per the difference in SM (p.B202).
• Any weapon you're holding has longer Reach than usual (p.B402).
• When you try to grapple a smaller opponent, you always get +1 per the difference in SM (p.B402).
• When you try to pin a smaller opponent, you always get +3 per the difference in SM (p.B370).
• If you are larger than your foe by 2+ SM (or you are larger than your foe by 1+ SM and he is lying prone), you can attempt trampling, which can be avoided only by Dodging (p.B404).
• If your SM is 1 or more, Regular (friendly or hostile) spells cost (1+SM) times FP than usual to affect you (p.B239).
• If your SM is 1 or more, poisons take (2 to the SM-th power) times longer to affect you (p.B438).
• While larger size requires larger cover, you also gain the ability to shoot over larger obstacles. Also notice that crossing an SM-3 (relative to your SM) obstacle is easy.
• You get to use larger weapons (this is most relevant in DF, but bigger guns could be an advantage too).

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by Stegyre

Thanks. I think this was the information I was looking for.

Taking a closer look, SM does not even apply to melee attacks?! (B547) I had not realized that before.

When 4e first came out, I used SM for melee until I got on here and found I was wrong. Then, I left for a while. When I came back, everyone was using SM for melee. XD

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Stegyre

My search skills fail me, but I recall seeing a post about either an in-manual rule or a houserule about a limit to the effect of a small size modifier. The idea was basically that, when you're trying to hit a small fly with a large fly swatter, it is the size of the weapon, rather than the size of the target, that matters.

That may not be the most helpful description of the issue, but does it ring a bell with anyone?

Your description was dead on and I am telling you this is the article you were looking for. From T Bone's Awesome Games Diner: "1e) This may be a wholly new addition to GURPS combat, but it's a logical one: when a big weapon strikes a small target, use the larger of the two as effective target size. That covers wide flyswatters hitting tiny flies, or room-wide dragon-flame jets washing over PCs."

The awesomeness of T Bone's Games Diner can not be overstated.

[Stegyre]

Thanks you, all!

This, specifically, is the language I was remembering:

Originally Posted by Tbone

1e) This may be a wholly new addition to GURPS combat, but it's a logical one: when a big weapon strikes a small target, use the larger of the two as effective target size. That covers wide flyswatters hitting tiny flies, or room-wide dragon-flame jets washing over PCs.