Various Magic Questions

[kirbwarrior]

From what I've seen, trading time for energy is usually very good, and trading a finite amount of time for effectively infinite energy seems pretty amazing. I could be wrong...

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

From what I've seen, trading time for energy is usually very good, and trading a finite amount of time for effectively infinite energy seems pretty amazing. I could be wrong...

The S+S enchanting method in a lot of campaigns pretty much only works for NPC enchanters...

If the GM and other PC's are kool with you saying "I need a 5 yr break in character to enchant this stuff" then I guess (assuming you can hire mages, keep your enemies off your back and not roll a 16,17,18) it is kool.

I used to have problems managing a SIX month break so my mage could learn a few spells...the fighter whose only non combat skill was HEAVY drinking did not see that kind of downtime as profitable...IIRC in two-ish years of running him I managed two short breaks...probably nine months total...

YMMV

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

From what I've seen, trading time for energy is usually very good, and trading a finite amount of time for effectively infinite energy seems pretty amazing. I could be wrong...

You really do need to do the math on S&S. Even pretty minor magic items can take years. It's one day of one Enchanter's labor for every point of required energy. The enchanter or Enchanters usually can't be interrupted in the middle wiothout losing all their work too.

The result of this is that if PCs want to special order magic items (or create them themselves) it's usualy Q&D or nothing. S&S isn't "better" it's _irrelevant_.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

From what I've seen, trading time for energy is usually very good, and trading a finite amount of time for effectively infinite energy seems pretty amazing. I could be wrong...

You can't trade a finite amount of time for infinite energy - only finite energy.

1 day = 1 energy. It's a pretty terrible exchange rate.

The "D&D Standard +1 sword" - a magic sword that gives +1 to hit, +1 to damage, and is magically resistant to abuse - is 900 energy. That's two and a half years of effort, and you can't even take weekends and holidays off. You just have to work for two and a half years, straight.

[Lamech]

Depending on what other sources of energy are available (paut, powerstones, sacrifices, ER, cone of power ect.) QnD can either have trouble managing much more than 80 energy (and even that might be pushing it) to making greater wishes in a week with a couple mages. To anything in between.
Of course this means that in a lot of worlds S+S is valuable. Its the only way to cast greater wish (and you can't tell me the ability to give yourself unaging ect. is irrelevant), and do a lot of things. But for most of the items Q+D is the way to go.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Bruno

You can't trade a finite amount of time for infinite energy - only finite energy.

1 day = 1 energy. It's a pretty terrible exchange rate.

The "D&D Standard +1 sword" - a magic sword that gives +1 to hit, +1 to damage, and is magically resistant to abuse - is 900 energy. That's two and a half years of effort, and you can't even take weekends and holidays off. You just have to work for two and a half years, straight.

Actually, 4e does let you have weekends and holidays off. MAGIC, p.22, mentions Slow And Sure enchanters work 5 days a week, about 22 days a month.

[roguebfl]

G.U.R.P.S. Enchantment Calculator might help here 8)

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Actually, 4e does let you have weekends and holidays off. MAGIC, p.22, mentions Slow And Sure enchanters work 5 days a week, about 22 days a month.

Actually, that is just one of a number of seemingly direct contradictions to the rules found in that section.

Originally Posted by p. M18

All of the caster's assistants must be present every day. If a day's work is skipped or interrupted, it takes two days to make it up. Loss of a mage ends the project!

[thulben]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Actually, 4e does let you have weekends and holidays off. MAGIC, p.22, mentions Slow And Sure enchanters work 5 days a week, about 22 days a month.

I think that was more to get a calculation of dollars per point. Bruno's assertion is true regardless of payment. That is you need 900 mage days of work for the sword she described. 900 working days * (1 year / 365 working days) = 2.46 years. If you start taking weekends off, you're talking 900 working days * (1 year / 365 calendar days) * (7 calendar days / 5 working days) = 3.46 years.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Actually, that is just one of a number of seemingly direct contradictions to the rules found in that section.

The contradiction is resolved if days off must be planned ahead of time. When the cowbell strokes sound on Friday afternoon, the enchanters chant the appropriate coda, and go home for two days. If one of them doesn't return on time Monday, that's a skip day that incurs the two-day makeup penalty.