Does Magic Spell get TDM?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

...if you burn negative FP you are losing FP and HP. If you just burn HP you are only losing HP. Unless there's some specific reason in your setting (HP magic is "tainted"?), it's pretty stupid for a caster to spend negative FP; HP's always a better deal.

If you need to avoid or minimize the skill penalties, and you want the spell to work even if it kills you, negative FP is preferable.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

If you need to avoid or minimize the skill penalties, and you want the spell to work even if it kills you, negative FP is preferable.

If you take damage from negative FP, you should still get shock penalties. I suppose in the case that you have HPT that might be worth it.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If you take damage from negative FP, you should still get shock penalties. I suppose in the case that you have HPT that might be worth it.

Yeah, but nowadays shock penalties top out at -4, so lack of HPT is a serious drawback but not insurmountable. there's no roof on Burning HP penalties, which is why you'd want to use negative FP for a spell that *has* to go off.

If it's a spell that *has* to go off and *has* to be maintained, you might can use both: use negative FP to cast but stop one short of fully negative, burning one HP if you have to to make it up; the spell goes off, and you lay there and burn HP to maintain it. Maintenance doesn't take an action, so there's no worries with the Will roll, and the pain from burning HP might keep you slightly more alert than otherwise, GM's call.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

There is no FP loss below -1xfull FP, so to allow that to continue to fuel spells would make the HP burning rules pointless. Since they are there for a reason, that thing that would make them pointless should therefore not be allowed.

Ah, I see what you're saying, if you use FP below 0, you automatically lose HP at a 1:1 ratio, and your skill roll is affected on your next turn as for taking damage, where HPT, the -4 Shock cap, and major wound rules, would all apply.

Therefore, there is a reason to use FP when below 0, since Burning HP will give you the negative to skill on the spell you're casting, not the next turn.

Good point.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

BZZZT, thank you for playing.

P.B328, "-1xFP – ... Your FP can never fall
below this level. After this stage,
any FP cost comes off your HP
instead!"

And your point? Its an FP cost, your paying it using all the normal rules for FP, the only difference is that the FP cost draws from HP. Actually the only difference from being at 0 or below is that it doesn't sap FP. Its still an FP cost when determining if your spell works.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Ah, I see what you're saying, if you use FP below 0, you automatically lose HP at a 1:1 ratio, and your skill roll is affected on your next turn as for taking damage, where HPT, the -4 Shock cap, and major wound rules, would all apply.

Therefore, there is a reason to use FP when below 0, since Burning HP will give you the negative to skill on the spell you're casting, not the next turn.

You can cast any spell no matter how large. If you can force a crit success and avoid energy costs it horribly broken. Or if you have unkillable, or if you have a friend with raise dead. Or... even with just normal casters it lets them tap HP for energy which is gonna be like another 10ish energy. That lets you get up into a few big cost spells.
Again I recommend making people burn HP below 0 FP as a house rule.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Lamech

And your point? Its an FP cost, your paying it using all the normal rules for FP, the only difference is that the FP cost draws from HP. Actually the only difference from being at 0 or below is that it doesn't sap FP. Its still an FP cost when determining if your spell works.

I find your lack of punctuation confusing, as is your conflation of FP cost with energy cost. FP is the most common way to pay spell costs, but there's no essential connection; there are many alternatives in 4e.