[Basic] TbaM single skill cost

[Gnome]

Sorry for starting yet another thread about the cost of Trained by a Master, but I've noticed that Weapon Master is significantly discounted when restricted to one or just a few skills. Any thoughts on the fair value of a similar restriction on TbaM?
Basically, I have a character who's pretty good at Karate but runs into big problems against multiple enemies, so I'm looking to buy halved penalties for Rapid Strikes and Parries. Not interested in any other benefits, such as access to cinematic skills or similar benefits for weapon skills or other unarmed skills.

[Maz]

Weapon Master (unarmed) is a legal choice. Just go for that. Actually I don't remember how it is priced.

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by Ransom

You get a discount for a single-skill weapon master because it makes you dependent on access to a particular weapon to gain the benefits, and therefore vulnerable to disarming and limited in your tactical options. Since an unarmed fighter is almost never unable to use his primary skillset, the discount if any shouldn't be as large.

That sounds reasonable. Surely there should at least be some discount for unarmed only though!
It still seems strange that TbaM provides fewer benefits than WM (1 wep) and costs 50% more...

Originally Posted by Maz

Weapon Master (unarmed) is a legal choice. Just go for that. Actually I don't remember how it is priced.

That sounds like a contradiction in terms.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Gnome

That sounds like a contradiction in terms.

Hehehe, yes indeed. I also couldn't remember where I read about it. After some searching, I found that I might have been a bit too quick to post. It seems it's only a suggestion by some.

The closets is "Unarmed Master" from Pyramid 61. Which I sadly do not have so I wouldn't know what it costs. So yea, do not listen to me on this subject. :)

[weby]

Originally Posted by Gnome

That sounds reasonable. Surely there should at least be some discount for unarmed only though!
It still seems strange that TbaM provides fewer benefits than WM (1 wep) and costs 50% more...

Trained by master gives access to significantly more skills than weapon master.

So if you just want the weapon benefits for few weapons use weapon master. If you want access to light walk, immovable stance and so on use TBM.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Maz

The closets is "Unarmed Master" from Pyramid 61. Which I sadly do not have so I wouldn't know what it costs. So yea, do not listen to me on this subject. :)

That basically turns your limbs into certified lethal weapons.

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by weby

Trained by master gives access to significantly more skills than weapon master.

So if you just want the weapon benefits for few weapons use weapon master. If you want access to light walk, immovable stance and so on use TBM.

Ok, I think we're reaching the crux. I specifically don't plan to buy ANY cinematic skills, not even the ones WM would give you access to. I ONLY want reduced penalties for Rapid Strikes and parries with Karate. Nothing else. What's the fair price for just this?

Since WM gives you the same for [20] with a weapon AND damage bonuses AND access to (some) special skills, I feel like this should cost less than [20]. While it's true that you might not always have weapons, there are also significant drawbacks to going unarmed which I feel should offset that, but I'm not sure, which is why I'm here. Any other opinions? I would love to get an answer from one of the designers, or a page reference that clarifies this question.

[weby]

Originally Posted by Gnome

Ok, I think we're reaching the crux. I specifically don't plan to buy ANY cinematic skills, not even the ones WM would give you access to. I ONLY want reduced penalties for Rapid Strikes and parries with Karate. Nothing else. What's the fair price for just this?

Since WM gives you the same for [20] with a weapon AND damage bonuses AND access to (some) special skills, I feel like this should cost less than [20]. While it's true that you might not always have weapons, there are also significant drawbacks to going unarmed which I feel should offset that, but I'm not sure, which is why I'm here. Any other opinions? I would love to get an answer from one of the designers, or a page reference that clarifies this question.

Well, as a GM I would likely price such an ability starting from the closest thing: Weapon master 2 weapons(hands and feet)[25] and then give it -20% for no damage bonus and maybe -10% for no skills for a total of maybe 18 points. A more RAW like solution would be to take the TBM and apply a -20% for no access to skills(as it has way more skills then weapon master) so 24 points total.

So the correct price would seem to be somewhere around 20 points depending a bit on how you interpret the relative importance of things.

[Maz]

FWIW Gunslinger also gives reduced penalty for Rapid Shot as well as reducing a lot of other penalties and grants Acc bonus without aiming.

it doesn't grant access to cinematic exotic skills.

This works for ALL guns, at 25 pts.



I think [20] is a fair cost for what your after. And in fact I would allow it for all unarmed strikes (ie. also if using Boxing or brawling).

[the_seeker]

Originally Posted by weby

Well, as a GM I would likely price such an ability starting from the closest thing: Weapon master 2 weapons(hands and feet)[25] and then give it -20% for no damage bonus and maybe -10% for no skills for a total of maybe 18 points.

Check Pee Kitty's web site. That's what he charges for TbaM (unarmed only) though I don't know how he decided that was the fair price. Specifically, he has...

Originally Posted by Pee Kitty's Web Site

Trained by a Master

• Unarmed Only: You only get the benefit of this advantage when making unarmed attacks, not with melee weapons. This also applies to any cinematic martial-arts skills that you use; e.g., you can use Power Blow to enhance an unarmed punch, but not a broadsword swing. Trained by a Master (Unarmed Only) and Weapon Master dovetail nicely. -40%

...and 30 minus 40% = 18. :)