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Old 06-22-2014, 10:56 AM   #31
Gollum
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

Here is what I would like to add to this topic.

Yes, GURPS combat turn is not really realistic for move, as it has been said above. But, as it has also been said above, it can easily be corrected.

Another problem of GURPS combat turn is that it enforces players to break down their action over several turns, especially when they are making long actions like taking time to aim with a range weapon. Then, the player who does that bored stiff while other players go on choosing actions and rolling dice...

A third problem of GURPS turn is that every character has exactly the same number of actions during a turn while, in reality, experience of fight, weapon weight (and so on) usually make some fighters act faster than others. In my Dojo, one of my partners is able to punch me two or three times before I can punch him once... Someone with a knife, a nunchaku or a tonfa can usually hit a foe with a two handed sword or a staff several times when this one can barely hit him back once... Peter Knutsen solution with Action Points sounds more realistic, then.

But GURPS solution is still much more simple! No initiative roll to make each turn. No complex system of action points (Sagatafl sounds to be really complex). And no bookkeeping for these action points which can be banked from one turn to the next.

The huge problem with longer turns is exactly that: they allow several actions and, no matter the system chosen (action points, opportunity attacks, turn segments), they have to allow several actions during one turn with something to rule which action takes place before others.

GURPS remains the simplest way to handle things: the turn is so short that you can just act once.

But the fight can still be fun and alive. Just use the following tricks...
  • If you don't want to enforce your players to take some Wait, Evaluate or Aim maneuvers, as suggested by Malloyd, you can show them by example. Don't make your NPCs attack them every turn, as robots. As GM, we often do that. It's an error! Make your NPCs use these maneuvers to get bonuses, make them move to find cover, to flee away, to encircle the PCs, etc. The players will eventually try to act like that too.
  • Use descriptions. A failed attack roll is not necessarily an attack that missed the target. It can be an hesitation, a lose of balance or anything else that made the attack impossible. Then, GURPS initiative becomes more alive: it's not anymore attack, defense, attack, defense, but attack, defense, defense, defense, attack and defense again...
  • Don't hesitate to snap out of combat turn sequence and to go back to it every time needed. Kromm recommended it in another thread. The combat rules with turn sequence begins when there are attacks. But when these attacks stop, you can stop the one second scale. Examples: when all characters are just moving, or speaking to surrender, you are not anymore enforced to count each combat turn. Then, long villain's monologues can happen during a fight - didn't you notice that when they occur in a superhero movie, everyone around stop fighting to listen for them! So, just do the same thing during your games: the bad guy suddenly speaks, the combat turn sequence suddenly stops; then, one of the heroes answers: "Shut up, boring clod!", punches him at the jaws, and the combat turn sequence starts again...

Last edited by Gollum; 06-22-2014 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:58 AM   #32
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
IQ 20 alone is already unrealistic because it means every mental skill at level 14, 15 or 16 (expert level) without training. ...
Many skills? Yes. All mental skills? No. Some don't default to an Attribute. This includes all the Specializations of Engineering as just one example.
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:59 AM   #33
Langy
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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Originally Posted by Juca View Post
You can go the EABA RPG route, adapted to GURPS:
- Each round is three seconds long, and you can act like a normal GURPS round, but you can also:
- Make an AOA (strong, determined, double, whatever) and defend yourself normally;
- Make an AOD and attack normally;
- Move double your movement allowance and charge.

If you choose one of those options, you spend a fatigue point, representing your extra effort on your combat actions. When you do not take one of those options, you are acting more on the cautious or slow side, waiting for oportunities and, generally, not overtaxing yourself.
I like this option for the most part. I may also include an Evaluate or Aim + Attack as one of the 'extra effort' options in there, but other than that it looks pretty simple and good.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:48 AM   #34
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Many skills? Yes. All mental skills? No. Some don't default to an Attribute. This includes all the Specializations of Engineering as just one example.
Yes... That's right. I should have written: almost all mental skills.
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Old 06-22-2014, 04:10 PM   #35
Desthro
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

I actually had this discussion with one of my friends, and I suggested that you just use the unit of time as an arbitrary unit of measurement. (This has an interesting effect of requiring almost everything else to also be arbitrary, but such is the case)

Everything in GURPS is based off of the "second" which is, for all intents and purposes, a common moniker used because people know what a second is. We can just as easily call seconds "turns" and say it takes one turn to draw a weapon, or one turn to ready that spell, or one turn to move your max move.

But what about movement? Movement is measured in yards per second! Well, a "yard" can very easily be construed as a universal unit in GURPS, (with smaller portions being decimal values of the "yard.") So you can move up to your number of move "units" in one "turn." This just requires some arbitrary thinking.

What about Rate of Fire!?
Well, you can shoot however many round or w/e in one "turn." Is it slower? Not really, because the units are arbitrary and the game impact is the same.

What about 1/2d or max range since those aren't measured in yards but in feet?
Well, divide them by 3 and then they become "units" since the "yard" is the basic "unit" in GURPS for distance for 90% of things in it.

Ultimately, it is the same if you use arbitrary units of measurement, or concrete units of measurement, because the effects on the game are minimal at best. You're just saying that a "turn" is however long it is, and you move a number of units per turn accordingly. It's hard to separate yourself from the concreteness of measurement, but that's ultimately what you have to do. Otherwise, you will inevitably come up with logical issues like, well can I perform two actions because turns are "twice" as long? no, because an action takes up one "turn" regardless of how long that "turn" may or may not be.

How complicated you want to make it is entirely up to you. =)
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:58 PM   #36
Tai
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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Originally Posted by Desthro View Post
What about 1/2d or max range since those aren't measured in yards but in feet?
Well, divide them by 3 and then they become "units" since the "yard" is the basic "unit" in GURPS for distance for 90% of things in it.
The rest of your idea works fine if that's what a GM wants to do, and I've no real opinion on it, but...

...1/2D and Max ranges aren't measured in feet, are they? I thought they were yards. o_o If they're in feet that changes a *huge* amount of character builds I've put together for myself and the rest of my group...
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:03 PM   #37
Langy
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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The rest of your idea works fine if that's what a GM wants to do, and I've no real opinion on it, but...

...1/2D and Max ranges aren't measured in feet, are they? I thought they were yards. o_o If they're in feet that changes a *huge* amount of character builds I've put together for myself and the rest of my group...
They're in yards. No idea why he thought otherwise.

EDIT: WTF writing error. Yes, they're in yards.

Last edited by Langy; 06-22-2014 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:34 PM   #38
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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Originally Posted by Langy View Post
They're in feet. No idea why he thought otherwise.
You mean, they're in yards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by B270
Maximum Range (Max) in yards at which it can attack a target.
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:36 PM   #39
hal
 
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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They're in feet. No idea why he thought otherwise.
Range is in yards. See page 372 for basic combat:

"You can only make a ranged attack on a target that falls within your weapon’s range. To find this, see the relevant weapon table or advantage or spell description. Most ranged attacks list Half Damage (1/2D) range and Maximum (Max) range, in yards. Your target must be no farther away than Max range; 1/2D range only affects damage."
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: Changing combat time to more than 1 second/turn

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They're in feet. No idea why he thought otherwise.
It's one of the oddities in the game...
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