[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#17): Brachiator; Clinging; Super Climbing

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Your objection/question is completely reasonable.
I can't claim to know why most or even any particular individual climbing arthropod fell. But with how many fell indoors with no vibration or wind I could detect, I must consider their simply slipping due only to their mistakes the most likely reason.

As opposed to you just not being able to detect the reason?

You said it yourself:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

But for those of us that may play in micro-character games, we must keep in mind the fact that reality itself differs so strangely at that scale from ours.

It is necessary to speculate a solution when you lack sufficient information, but it is important to distinguish your own guesses from what may or may not actually be happening. Yes, far, far, far too often you will find me making that mistake myself, to even more severe degrees.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Otaku

As opposed to you just not being able to detect the reason?

You said it yourself:



It is necessary to speculate a solution when you lack sufficient information, but it is important to distinguish your own guesses from what may or may not actually be happening. Yes, far, far, far too often you will find me making that mistake myself, to even more severe degrees.

If something happens consistently over decades of life experiences, it's better to assume the obvious reason and wait/look for evidence to the contrary than throw one's hands up and make no suggestions or think no opinions.
Climbing spiders and insects fall when no wind or detectable, to me, vibration occurs. If you can give a reasonable alternate suggestions to mine, please do.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Climbing spiders and insects fall when no wind or detectable, to me, vibration occurs. If you can give a reasonable alternate suggestions to mine, please do.

That is just it... there are so many possible variables I would be uncomfortable (well, I would hope I would be uncomfortable - I don't have the best track record XD) making any broad, sweeping statements using my general observations as the foundation.

I don't have the details. You see spiders fall a lot more often than I do: do you study them as a hobby or as part of a career? Just curious: you've never thrown a number out there (or if you did I missed it >_<) so yes if you literally see a spider "trip" about once an hour in a very controlled environment and spread out among many different spiders, eight hours a day and five days a week, it is a much firmer foundation than I realized. >.> Then again if you're in a situation where you're doing as above but you're watching hundreds or thousands of spiders... one of them tripping starts to seem like normal people walking again.

Otherwise, I just assume you're missing things you probably can't hope to catch. For example I think you've ruled out the notion of "wind" but we have to factor in scale; a mild draft at ceiling level you would never notice (or the heating or cooling system kicking in) is a strong wind to a small spider. At their scale, who can tell how good the "footing" is?

Getting back to Clinging as a game mechanic to represent such things, you're mostly convincing me that the Base Set and Supers descriptions of Clinging could have used a sentence about whether or not this is supposed to completely mitigate such hazards. Possibly it would be a Modifier as to whether or not Clinging completely bypasses common environmental concerns or whether the subject using Clinging needs to make ST to avoid losing your grip while DX rolls are to avoid tripping.

I don't know mechanically what is suited as the default (and what actually is the default) but I can also see it varying depending on when you're using Clinging; halving my ground move when using it on a more or less level surface to help resist a strong wind or similar force attempting to knock me off my feet or to combat slipping in a puddle while running (even if technically at half speed) but doing that same trick on walls or ceilings where you're fighting gravity instead of having it as something of an ally, more rolls may be appropriate.

...and of course for your traditional Supers Settings, most characters would want to have the necessary requisites for a No Nuisance Rolls Perk or else the setting rules would provide a similar benefit "for free".

[Terwin]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Climbing spiders and insects fall when no wind or detectable, to me, vibration occurs. If you can give a reasonable alternate suggestions to mine, please do.

1) a spider of other insect falling from a substantial height has little chance of being injured, perhaps it is recreational(like someone who always has a ready parachute on hand)

2) pouncing/escaping: Perhaps there is some prey or predator that was spotted and the spider/insect deliberately let go to pursue/escape it

3) placing webs. A spider could very well be placing sticky silk on the wall so as to catch any landing insects. If you need to go back down to the bottom, why not just drop-down if it does not harm you? takes less energy=good idea

4) changed perspective: perhaps from the floor, something like like food, but upon getting closer, it no longer looks like food, so the spider stops pursuing it and returns to looking for food from the ground. The ones that go up again and again have poor memory

5) low-risk/low effort: if falling 10x your height does not bother you, how careful will you be with poor footing(such as a smooth wall or ceiling)?

I have seen spiders working their way across my windshield on occasion, and they will hold on with several limbs while reaching forward with one limb to try and find another purchase when the wind of my driving is trying to push them off. They *can* be careful, but I do not know that they bother to be so with any real frequency...

[Flyndaran]

I certainly know that falling isn't dangerous to such small creatures. That's probably partly why they aren't as agile as monkeys. Evolution hasn't pushed them as hard, so to speak.
But as no realistic creature can climb with any ability in the same ballpark as Clinging except tiny creatures, all we have to go on is observations of them.

Honestly, with how often I've seen tiny creatures trip over themselves and fall off walls, I'm surprised I'm getting so much amazement at the concept.
Though I must admit that when they show awareness to my presence, they tend to "hunker down" or scramble away, and are far less likely to stumble then. Or at least their drops look more intentional, as far as I can tell. More subjective observations I don't expect anyone else to trust.

[tantric]

Don't forget Scansorator/Scansorial movement, aka scampering. Love that word, and it's much more common than brachiation.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by tantric

Don't forget Scansorator/Scansorial movement, aka scampering. Love that word, and it's much more common than brachiation.

I have never in my life neither heard nor read that word. Awesome. Scampering isn't restricted to climbing only.

Very few animals can truly brachiate. Other than the gibbons, I have trouble thinking of any that don't "just" jump from branch to branch or climb really fast, or scansorially move, assuming I'm using the correct adverb form.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Scampering isn't restricted to climbing only.

I've never heard scampering referring to climbing before; usually I hear it used as a more agile/acrobatic cousin of scurrying or the quadrupedal equivalent of a human's skipping.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Honestly, with how often I've seen tiny creatures trip over themselves and fall off walls, I'm surprised I'm getting so much amazement at the concept.

I see lizards fail at running across the outside of my window all the time.

Granted it has a single "clean spot" in the middle. I keep that one spot clean to see if they'll ever learn to go around. So far they haven't.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Discussion
1. Have you or someone you've gamed with used any of these Advantages? How did they seem to work out?
2. Even if you haven't, do they seem appropriately priced, under- or overpriced?
3. Any useful traits or Skills to combine with them?
4. Anything else that seems remotely relevant (which would include general feedback over these [Basic] Advantage of the Week threads.)

I have a supers character, The Roach, that has Clinging and Super Climbing. He makes use of this to move rapidly along surfaces without worrying about acceleration, deceleration, and turn radius.

Question: as written – Clinging with no enhancements/limitations – does moving along walls and ceilings require skin-to-surface contact? I.e. Should an otherwise human character with this advantage be able to walk on walls and ceilings while wearing boots?