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Old 10-22-2017, 10:07 AM   #141
lwcamp
 
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What would naval warfare at TL10 look like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
I read that as: the sub pops a missile, which floats up, gets a lock, and launches. It may be bobbing around on the surface while it tries for a lock, but it's a smaller and more expendable target than the whole submarine, which is heading off somewhere else.
Ah, yes. Good call. There might be some additional disposable launch assist machinery (floats, launch tube, etc.), but that's incidental. One question remaining is how good are the missile's sensors compared to a larger vehicular sensor. That is, for adequate range does the missile need a hand off from a larger sensor array or not?

If you assume sensors good enough to reach out to line of sight out to, say, 20 km or so, this might serve as a sort of mine. A warship with a conning tower 20 meters high would be visible on the horizon at about 15 km away (on Earth). The main problem with this is it throws away one of the main advantages of hypersonic missiles - a sea-skimming hypersonic missile gives the target only a few seconds to respond before it is hit. But this missile starts out stationary, and if it launches while the target is in line of sight it will take a while to reach hypersonic speeds, during which time it can be engaged with the target's lasers. This is where distributed vehicle/drone networks are going to be helpful. Something else gets a contact with an enemy target and sends the approximate position (within 20 km) to the missile. Then the missile launches, accelerates to hypersonic speeds, and cruises in to attack its target.

This also illustrates one of the advantages of screening aircraft. Since they fly high, they can see out to the horizon farther than a warship, giving them more time to engage sea-skimming missiles. They also give a warning that the missiles are coming, allowing the warship to launch counter-missiles as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
Depending on how fiber optics or advanced replacements for them work, the sub might send up some tethered drones that pop up, zap a couple of planes, and get destroyed. As the drones are fairly small - a fiber optic coil, a small propeller and engine, and the beam emitter - the sub can carry a lot of them.
Yes, good point. They then become similar to beam redirector drone aircraft for surface warships.

So aircraft (or aircraft swarms) have the advantage of mobility on their side. A surface warship with networked screening aircraft has less mobility than a free-flying swarm, but more mobility than a submarine. The submarine may or may not have a stealth advantage (depending on tech assumptions), but is able to choose the terms of the fight (mutual protection by water, or not).

At first thought, if the sub is detected and stays submerged it will be vulnerable. The aircraft swarm will radio back for ASW drone aircraft, which show up with depth charges or autonomous dropped torpedoes. They now bring the fight to the sub. The sub fights back with its tethered drones and pop-up missiles. If the sub's drones kill the flying drones first, it gets away (and can then move to attack the warship node that was deploying the aircraft swarm). If the sub's drones get zapped first the ASW flying drones come in and finish it off.

This leads to speculation on what sort of traditions for surrender develop. If a sub loses all of its tethered drones, or a warship all of its screening drone aircraft and emitters, can it broadcast a surrender which is mutually accepted by both sides? Since destruction is imminent otherwise, this allows its sapient crew (if any) to survive. It does rely on honor, however - conceivably, a dishonorable captain could broadcast surrender and then open up on his would-be captors with a reserve of missiles when they come close. This is likely to be unpopular with both sides, since on his side it means that their surrenders are less likely to be accepted and the captains and crew are more likely to be killed if the battle goes against them. Perhaps the surrendered crew will pile into lifeboats, enough time will be given for the lifeboats to reach a safe distance, and then the warship of sub will be blown up (if it hasn't already been scuttled).

Luke
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