Kickstarter general question about profitability

[kbs666]

Anyone who attended GenCon back when SJG brought the 3d 1/64th scale Hammer Downs knows how unwieldy a 1/64th arena is going to be.

I think the largest reasonable play surface is likely to be 4 playmats as a square. 5 feet by 5 feet just might be doable at a convention or game store with two tables put together.

[beetle496]

Originally Posted by JimTullis

If you mean availability of almost any other features, H0 scale is the most popular train scale and you can get almost anything you can think of for terrain and pedestrians. I can't think of any 1/64th scale pedestrians or realistic buildings. You can also get actual H0 scale 18-wheelers, which are impossible to get in 1/64th.

Because of the above, that’s why I think SJG had long been planning for CW 6e to be HO. And because cool cars with guns are not at thing at HO, SJG started work on the miniatures. Then they figured out that 1/64 scale minis would only be trivially more expensive than HO scale minis. Bigger is better and more fun, so the decision to upscale seemed like a no-brainier. All that design and prep work was a sunk cost which SJG needed to recover for the 6e KS to be profitable.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by beetle496

Then they figured out that 1/64 scale minis would only be trivially more expensive than HO scale minis.

And, 1/64 Hot Wheels/Matchbox are dirt cheap for those who don't want to buy CW specific minis.

Additionally, Gaslands uses that scale so presumably having a compatible scale might entice current Gaslands players to additionally try out 6E.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by kbs666

Anyone who attended GenCon back when SJG brought the 3d 1/64th scale Hammer Downs knows how unwieldy a 1/64th arena is going to be.

I think the largest reasonable play surface is likely to be 4 playmats as a square. 5 feet by 5 feet just might be doable at a convention or game store with two tables put together.

That one wasn't 1/64 scale. I want to say it was about 1.5-2x Classic scale.

For comparison, this is what 1/64 scale arenas look like:

Rainbow Bay Blast Furnace

KEAR Coliseum (Warrior Stadium)

[JimTullis]

Originally Posted by beetle496

Bigger is better and more fun, so the decision to upscale seemed like a no-brainier.

I think Bigger is mostly only better at CONS. Hence Giant Catan and RC Robo Rally. And probably RC Car Wars. {Excuse us we need Lucas Oil for our Car Wars Arena. ;) }

RC cars are 1/10th to 1/6th scale but I haven't seen many folks asking for Car Wars to be that big. And I never see people playing Giant Catan at the FLGS. Outside of CONS, space is at a premium (and even sometimes at cons).

H0 scale cars would have been about double the size of Classic. And you could have gotten a couple of city blocks of terrain on an average dining room table.

Instead we will get One Parking Lot. And if you have more than two players, some of them will have to share a table end because the mat will fill the table from side to side.

I think too many people who have only seen that "other" game and convention sized Car Wars influenced the scale decision.

Is it a Fun Game? 4377 Yes. Will I play it until the local gamers have had too much? Again Yes. Will it see much dining room play? Probably not. At least not until I Downscale it.

I think SJ Games dropped the ball on the scale. They could have had a game with cool intricate Arenas and Cityscapes that caught the eye. Instead they have a game that is scaled to play on a 3x3 playmat just like X-Wing, Vanguard, Guild Ball, and that "other" game.

Please nobody take this as a personal attack.
It's just my opinion¤ about the scale.

Also, this is not meant as an attack on that "other" game.
I've played it while waiting for Car Wars to update and I'll probably play it occasionally in the future. Locally it is considered to be a comedy game. People get great laughs at their own expense when they wipe out and kill themselves crossingthe finish line for the win.

¤Opinions are like Arm Pits, almost everyone has some and almost everybody else's stinks ;) I know mine do occasionally.

[kbs666]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

That one wasn't 1/64 scale. I want to say it was about 1.5-2x Classic scale.

For comparison, this is what 1/64 scale arenas look like:

Rainbow Bay Blast Furnace

KEAR Coliseum (Warrior Stadium)

It's been a long time, 20 years?, but I seem to recall that the players used based matchbox cars in it. Maybe I'm conflating two things.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by JimTullis

I think too many people who have only seen that "other" game and convention sized Car Wars influenced the scale decision.

I think this is almost certainly true.

Originally Posted by JimTullis

At least not until I Downscale it.

My favorite scale is Micro Machines - it strikes a "Goldilocks" pose between original CW scale and Hot Wheels. The kitchen table easily becomes a large arena and 3D models are much better than paper chits.

Too bad they are so hard to find now.

Originally Posted by JimTullis

¤Opinions are like Arm Pits, almost everyone has some and almost everybody else's stinks

Nice! I alluded to almost the same thing just now in my post on house rules for 6E.

[Parody]

Originally Posted by JimTullis

I think Bigger is mostly only better at CONS. Hence Giant Catan and RC Robo Rally. And probably RC Car Wars. {Excuse us we need Lucas Oil for our Car Wars Arena. ;) }

Not big enough! We might as well go 1:1 at the Speedway. :)

Our group uses Micro Machines for the old game (at 1.5x scale) and it's a good balance of "something to look at" and "not taking up too much space". However, given what they were going for in Sixth Edition, I don't blame them for moving up to Hot Wheels size.

I don't know what we're going to do with the new game. I know at least two members of our group were in for a bunch of things in the Kickstarter. I only signed up for the base game because I didn't want a bunch of tiles, playmats, or extra miniatures I'm not going to paint anyway. I'm not sure if I'll stick with that or spend a bit more money for the two decks of cards I'm not going to get. Maybe I'll just wait and put something like the CWVD together from all the cards my friends have so we can design vehicles with all the options, even if we can't share it with others. We'll see.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by kbs666

It's been a long time, 20 years?, but I seem to recall that the players used based matchbox cars in it. Maybe I'm conflating two things.

I'm pretty sure they were architectural figures.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

That one wasn't 1/64 scale. I want to say it was about 1.5-2x Classic scale.

According to Ken Scott's post here, it was 2.5x scale which is 1/72 (although to fit on the appropriately scaled base, he used 1/87 models)

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=92148&page=2

See also the pictures in ADQ 6-3.