Translating Cyberpunk Bionics to GUPRS 4e

[hal]

Hello Folks,
In looking at GURPS CLASSIC ULTRATECH and GURPS CLASSIC ULTRATECH 2, as well as GURPS CLASSIC CYBERPUNK, there are certain Bionic implants that are either advantageous or disadvantageous overall. When looking to convert these from the classic era of GURPS to GURPS 4e, I was trying to get a feel for some of the "disadvantages" listed.

For instance, in GURPS CLASSIC ULTRATECH, it lists a Cortex bomb as being worth -15 points.

Its closest analog in GURPS ULTRATECH (for GURPS 4e) is a Bomb Implant (page UT 210). All it lists is that it might be classified as an involuntary Duty, which by itself, doesn't really say much. When you look at GURPS CHARACTERS page 134, it lists duty as by activation number, along with Hazardous and Involuntary Duty modifiers against the activation number.

So how would one classify the fact that one is extremely hazardous with the implant (can kill) versus involuntary duty (the bomb is there to make you behavior or else) versus free will in which someone is likely to let you live unless you decide to disobey them. That doesn't seem to be an "activation level" issue - making it hard to price the involuntary hazardous duty.

Original value for the cortex bomb was -15. New Value should probably be close to that. Closest that I can get to this is Fairly Often, 9 or less, with Hazardous and Involuntary duty.

Does that make sense?

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by hal

Hello Folks,

Hey.

Originally Posted by hal

[snip] So how would one classify the fact that one is extremely hazardous with the implant (can kill) versus involuntary duty (the bomb is there to make you behavior or else) versus free will in which someone is likely to let you live unless you decide to disobey them. That doesn't seem to be an "activation level" issue - making it hard to price the involuntary hazardous duty.

Original value for the cortex bomb was -15. New Value should probably be close to that. Closest that I can get to this is Fairly Often, 9 or less, with Hazardous and Involuntary duty. [snip]

It's Extremely Hazardous if the person who controls the bomb makes the person with the bomb do extremely hazardous things; the threat posed by the bomb itself is irrelevant.

The frequency of appearance refers to how often the former bosses the latter around, so if the bomb is merely insurance against betrayal the frequency should be as low as possible. It could even be a Quirk "Can't betray X or head go boom" [-1] if there's no foreseeable reason to betray X (y'know, other than resenting him for putting a bomb in your head).

[hal]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Hey.



It's Extremely Hazardous if the person who controls the bomb makes the person with the bomb do extremely hazardous things; the threat posed by the bomb itself is irrelevant.

The frequency of appearance refers to how often the former bosses the latter around, so if the bomb is merely insurance against betrayal the frequency should be as low as possible. It could even be a Quirk "Can't betray X or head go boom" [-1] if there's no foreseeable reason to betray X (y'know, other than resenting him for putting a bomb in your head).

So - for example, being forced to do something you don't want to do results in having involuntary duty for the most part. The remainder might be a function of how often the involuntary duty applies? So for example, being restricted to staying within one location might be constant, but being able to go anywhere and do almost anything might be involuntary duty on a 6 or less?

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by hal

So - for example, being forced to do something you don't want to do results in having involuntary duty for the most part. The remainder might be a function of how often the involuntary duty applies? So for example, being restricted to staying within one location might be constant, but being able to go anywhere and do almost anything might be involuntary duty on a 6 or less?

Standing orders to do or not do something specific would probably be most-fairly priced proportionally to how often the Duty would've inconvenienced the character if its appearance was being rolled for randomly (eg: a roll against 9- succeeds roughly 1/3 of the time, so I'd charge what that costs if the Duty is going to be a pain roughly 1/3 of the time).

[hal]

So would Cyber Liver be something that offers "resistance: (Common)" in that it grants a +3 HT saving roll to blood agents?

What gets to me with all of this is that a single cybernetic eye is a positive value, but two eyes becomes a disadvantage in GURPS ULTRATECH for 4e. The only time the "blindness" hits is when the eyes are rendered dysfunctional via some sort of attack - which when you think about it, would do the same to biological eyes if an attack were made with a weapon against normal biological eyes.

Then there is the advantage that gave extra hit points and hard to kill in the original 3e version, but ends up giving Terminally Ill along with Hard to Kill in the new version.

What has me puzzled however, is the disadvantage "electrical" in terms of game play. If one is involved in a Cyberpunk campaign that is TL 9, with only some elements of TL 10 (neural interface for example), there aren't too many weapons that produce "Surge" effects. Even with the surge effects of Electro-lasers or grenades that produce an EMP in a small area - the net result isn't a burned out cybernetic part, but a temporarily disfunctional cybernetic part. Removing say, Bionic Transplant Organs is no worse than removing the biological organs themselves. So how is the Bionic Transplant Organ "disadvantage" going to confer a measurable Terminal Illness any different than normal parts?

It just seems to me that the very nature of "Terminal Illness" itself warns against its inclusion where it does not have a measurable effect on the game. One shot adventures aren't affected by this disadvantage, and the GM is advised not to include it. Even a heavily discounted version of this by as much as 70% does not seem warranted if the very conditions that impose the Terminal Illness would also impose Terminal illness on biological organs removed.

Different strokes for different folks it would appear. :(

[DemiBenson]

Originally Posted by hal

So would Cyber Liver be something that offers "resistance: (Common)" in that it grants a +3 HT saving roll to blood agents?

What gets to me with all of this is that a single cybernetic eye is a positive value, but two eyes becomes a disadvantage in GURPS ULTRATECH for 4e. The only time the "blindness" hits is when the eyes are rendered dysfunctional via some sort of attack - which when you think about it, would do the same to biological eyes if an attack were made with a weapon against normal biological eyes.

Then there is the advantage that gave extra hit points and hard to kill in the original 3e version, but ends up giving Terminally Ill along with Hard to Kill in the new version.

What has me puzzled however, is the disadvantage "electrical" in terms of game play. If one is involved in a Cyberpunk campaign that is TL 9, with only some elements of TL 10 (neural interface for example), there aren't too many weapons that produce "Surge" effects. Even with the surge effects of Electro-lasers or grenades that produce an EMP in a small area - the net result isn't a burned out cybernetic part, but a temporarily disfunctional cybernetic part. Removing say, Bionic Transplant Organs is no worse than removing the biological organs themselves. So how is the Bionic Transplant Organ "disadvantage" going to confer a measurable Terminal Illness any different than normal parts?

It just seems to me that the very nature of "Terminal Illness" itself warns against its inclusion where it does not have a measurable effect on the game. One shot adventures aren't affected by this disadvantage, and the GM is advised not to include it. Even a heavily discounted version of this by as much as 70% does not seem warranted if the very conditions that impose the Terminal Illness would also impose Terminal illness on biological organs removed.

Different strokes for different folks it would appear. :(

Remember that bionics need to be maintained, or they break down. If your artificial heart breaks down, you really are Terminally Ill. Same goes for Electrical - it's a disadvantage because it offers more ways for enemies (or random fate) to leave you blind/legless/etc without outright violence against flesh.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by hal

H

So how would one classify the fact that one is extremely hazardous with the implant (can kill) versus involuntary duty (the bomb is there to make you behavior or else) versus free will in which someone is likely to let you live unless you decide to disobey them.

I'm sorry I don't understand the issue. The cortex bomb does not in itself make the Duty hazardous or nonhazardous. Every Involuntary Duty involves severe consequences for a failure to obey if the character is even capable of trying. The cortex bomb is just a plot device establishing how the character is compelled to comply with their involuntary duty.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by hal

Then there is the advantage that gave extra hit points and hard to kill in the original 3e version, but ends up giving Terminally Ill along with Hard to Kill in the new version.

Which one would that be?