02-27-2017, 08:48 AM | #11 | |||
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
Quote:
Quote:
Atk 3 Rng 3 Atk 1 Rng 1, AP Atk 1 Rng 1, AP D 5 M 3 S One assumes the text on the Cobb calculator site is old, because The VP value quoted is low compared to what the calculator currently produces Quote:
Final cost is 14.93 VPs, 3 armor units, as expected.What it does show is even using old calculations, the SHVY is too cheap at 2 AU. At 15VP using the current model, it should be 3 AU; maybe even more if using partial damage. I would even be ok, for KISS sake, to just call it a flat 3 AU regardless if using partial damage or not. EDIT: note the possible bug I found in the calculator (it says 15 VP is 3 AU, when 18 VP is 3 AU). based on that, the better numbers are likely 2.5 AU for a standard SHVY and 3.5 AU for the partial damage SHVY In any case, it absolutely should not be 2 AU.
__________________
GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor Last edited by GranitePenguin; 02-27-2017 at 09:39 AM. Reason: noting possible calculator error |
|||
02-27-2017, 09:02 AM | #12 | ||
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
Quote:
13.07 Partial Damage for Superheavies. A Superheavy Tank may be treated as a small manned Ogre, with its own record sheet. The ability to survive an X result with only partial damage makes SHVY units considerably tougher. Increase SHVY cost to 3 armor units.If you follow the Cobb calculator recommendation for handling partial damage Quote:
With this difference being already admitted, I would offer that the values should be 3 AU for the normal SHVY (the current Cobb calculator cost: 14.93 VP rounded to 15 VP), and at least 3.5 AU for the partial damage SHVY. I'm not a big fan of x.5, but I think it's hard to justify that much of a jump to go to 4 AU. EDIT: note the possible bug I found in the calculator (it says 15 VP is 3 AU, when 18 VP is 3 AU). based on that, the better numbers are likely 2.5 AU for a standard SHVY and 3.5 AU for the partial damage SHVY
__________________
GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor Last edited by GranitePenguin; 02-27-2017 at 09:18 AM. |
||
02-27-2017, 09:11 AM | #13 | |
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
Quote:
So I'm thinking, although I'm not a big fan of x.5 for a unit (0.5 units excluded, that's a simple doubling, similar to 2 AU), 2.5 AU for a standard SHVY and 3.5 AU for the partial damage SHVY is probably closer to reality.
__________________
GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor |
|
02-27-2017, 09:38 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Austin, TX
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
My bad. Sorry.
__________________
Play Ogre? Want an interactive record sheet? Want a random dungeon? How about some tables for that? How about a random encounter? |
02-27-2017, 02:04 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Dec 2014
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
Agree. I think the standard SHVY should be 2.5. Even 2.33 would be OK (allowing a SHVY and 2Inf for 3AU cost).
If it is any consolation, the current SHVY at 2 is clearly more balanced than the old (D4) SHVY at 2 IMHO.... That jump from D4 to D5 is a seriously large jump - making you immune to single GEV's and 1-2 against HVYs instead of 1-1 for example. The "Old" SHVY at D4 just wasn't a viable unit. That D4 doesn't help much compared to D3. Probably why everyone takes out MB's before 2B's. |
02-27-2017, 02:19 PM | #17 | ||
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
Quote:
Quote:
Comparing it to a Mark I, they are actually very similar, and in some ways offensively, the SHVY is better than the Ogre; but the Ogre is still a more difficult thing to bring down. You _must_ strip an Ogre, while the SHVY can still be taken out by a single (albeit lucky) shot.
__________________
GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor |
||
02-27-2017, 02:39 PM | #18 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
Quote:
I think 2.5 AU sounds right for the SHVY. (I've not got a strong opinion about the optional partial-damage SHVY, but 3.5 seems OK. The rules are too fiddly for my taste, so I haven't built up experience with it. It and an LGEV could be a challenge for a MkI. ) I'd like to see (in some vague future expansion) 1.5-AU units, maybe for Nippon, so the 1/2 AU values are OK by me. We're pretty good at simple fractions in Ogre. |
|
02-27-2017, 03:07 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minnesota
|
Re: The "right" value for a SHVY?
Quote:
A SHVY can take on two HVYs, get the first shot, and probably destroy both of them. 3 INF can overrun a HVY with a 2/3s chance of destroying it (while they lose one squad). 6 INF overrunning a SHVY have a 1/3 chance of destroying it and probably lose 4 squads in the first round. MSLs and GEVs can't handle terrain as well as a SHVY, so they'll probably lose the first shot. Ogre missiles are strong against SHVYs, because a 6 attack is an overmatch for most other units. I vote for a 2.5 AU SHVY cost. There's plenty of LTs for making change as needed. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|