Digital versions of Ogre / GEV

[alsteel]

After recently rediscovering my Ogre collection, spanning the past 30ish years, I noticed that most of items I have are no longer available. I did some quick searching on eBay to find that my $3-$5 pocket games (Ogre, GEV, Shockwave, etc) now fetch over $50 each!! That's a little over the top.

It's evident (given Ogre DE and Ogre, Pocket Ed) that SJG wishes to keep some portion of Ogre alive but OTOH they appear reluctant to throw money at it. So, in order to provide for the needs of future and past Ogre players I suggest this...

Release the original pocket games (Ogre, GEV, Shockwave, Battlefields) in a digital format that is downloadable via WH23. The production costs are FAR lower than that of a printed version and can be sold at the same price as the original print editions ($3.95 ish). This would allow new players to be able to enjoy the full Ogre "experience" without draining their wallet purchasing games at robber baron prices. Also, offer counter sets and full color maps for purchase for those that can't print their own.

What say ye?

[GranitePenguin]

While not comprehensive, most of the necessary items are already available in PDF. The only things not readily available (officially from SJG) are the maps.

From W23:
Counter sheets
Quickstart Rules (i.e., Ogre only)
Full Rules (german) <-- Why not also have the English version on W23?

Official rules PDFs:
ODE Rules PDF
ODE Scenarios PDF
ODE Reference sheet PDF
Record Sheets PDF

[alsteel]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

While not comprehensive, most of the necessary items are already available in PDF. The only things not readily available (officially from SJG) are the maps.

From W23:
Counter sheets
Quickstart Rules (i.e., Ogre only)
Full Rules (german) <-- Why not also have the English version on W23?

"Official" Draft rules (via the Kickstarter):
ODE Rules PDF
ODE Scenarios PDF
ODE Reference sheet PDF

That's great, didn't see the ODE Rules, thanks for that! I did notice the German rules on WH23 and thought the lack of an English version was odd too.

I skimmed the ODE rules and noticed some things missing that are in the other pocket rules. It would be nice to be able to d/l them as well.

One thing that would REALLY be nice would be a complete edition Ogre "Compendium" that combined all the published canon rules with errata & official updates (include Ninja, engineers, etc. but exclude Goliath, flying units and other optional units mentioned in the Ogre book). Package that with all the printable color maps and counters in a PDF file and make it downloadable on WH23 for a reasonable price. $10-20ish. It would take some editing effort to make that happen though. Of course SJG could offer printed maps and counters but that's what heavy bond paper or Staples, OfficeMax, etc are for.

IMHO digital is the way to go. Printed versions are nice but not necessary. Almost all software is sold downloadable, I can't tell you the last time I bought a console game, movie, or even a newspaper at a brick & mortar store, all are downloaded. SJG already has digital versions of Ogre Minis so why no just toss the microgames up? I'm sure they have the original files, it would be a mouse click to convert them to PDF and almost no effort to post it to WH23 for sale. To me it's a no brainer... low risk/effort, high reward/payoff potential.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by alsteel

I skimmed the ODE rules and noticed some things missing that are in the other pocket rules. It would be nice to be able to d/l them as well.

Like what, exactly? I assume some of the more esoteric units from things like Shockwave and Battlefields. Those are known and being dealt with in one form or another. Some are slated to be added online, others, not so much. The Resources Page lists most of the info (including links to the PDFs) and the New Units Page is a placeholder for the missing stuff.

One thing that would REALLY be nice would be a complete edition Ogre "Compendium" that combined all the published canon rules with errata & official updates (include Ninja, engineers, etc. but exclude Goliath, flying units and other optional units mentioned in the Ogre book).

The ODE rules are the canon rules. They represent a lot of reworking to close a lot of old holes, errata, etc (although they did introduce some new ones). ODE is the "compendium" for which you are looking.

IMHO digital is the way to go. Printed versions are nice but not necessary. Almost all software is sold downloadable, I can't tell you the last time I bought a console game, movie, or even a newspaper at a brick & mortar store, all are downloaded. SJG already has digital versions of Ogre Minis so why no just toss the microgames up? I'm sure they have the original files, it would be a mouse click to convert them to PDF and almost no effort to post it to WH23 for sale. To me it's a no brainer... low risk/effort, high reward/payoff potential.

Most of your examples are digital by nature (you aren't going to print a console game). Ogre Minis is just a book; everything else about it is very physical. As for risk/reward, only SJG knows what that ratio looks like.

[Mack_JB]

Originally Posted by alsteel

... I noticed that most of items I have are no longer available. I did some quick searching on eBay to find that my $3-$5 pocket games (Ogre, GEV, Shockwave, etc) now fetch over $50 each!!

Last year I got my 18 year old son into Ogre by buying the Pocket Edition. Then decided he needed all the other stuff to go with it. I managed to get him Ogre/G.E.V. (1990), Shockwave, Reinforcements, and Battlefields over about four months, all for less than $50. Keep your eyes open, and the eBay gougers can't take advantage of you.

The stuff is out there reasonably priced, you just have to search for it.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by Mack_JB

Last year I got my 18 year old son into Ogre by buying the Pocket Edition. Then decided he needed all the other stuff to go with it. I managed to get him Ogre/G.E.V. (1990), Shockwave, Reinforcements, and Battlefields over about four months, all for less than $50. Keep your eyes open, and the eBay gougers can't take advantage of you.

The stuff is out there reasonably priced, you just have to search for it.

Yeah, it's out there, but can be problematic to find. Patience is a virtue...

[alsteel]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

Like what, exactly? I assume some of the more esoteric units from things like Shockwave and Battlefields. Those are known and being dealt with in one form or another. Some are slated to be added online, others, not so much. The Resources Page lists most of the info (including links to the PDFs) and the New Units Page is a placeholder for the missing stuff.

The ODE rules are the canon rules. They represent a lot of reworking to close a lot of old holes, errata, etc (although they did introduce some new ones). ODE is the "compendium" for which you are looking.

Most of your examples are digital by nature (you aren't going to print a console game). Ogre Minis is just a book; everything else about it is very physical. As for risk/reward, only SJG knows what that ratio looks like.

Sorry to say this, but the Resources page lists almost everything as OOP and the New Units page only has official rules for Hvy Weapons INF, last updated in 2013 (??)

Yes, everything in the published rules and recent errata. I'm not talking about the Goliath, Flying Ogres, BPCSubs, etc. I didn't see any finalized rules for Ninja's, Vulcans, Militia, Combat Engineers, and Light Artillery Drone. Those units were minted as miniatures (militia being the exception) so I regard those units as "canon" and IMHO should be included. Also Revetments (GREAT for dug in infantry and artillery) and Towing rules aren't mentioned in ODE. In the forums, to the best of my knowledge MIL was still talked about as "broken" (which it IS) and the others were still play testing. If there are official, finalized rules for these units somewhere in the forums PLEASE point me to them.

I'm not trying to diminish ODE, it looks great and I deeply appreciate it being available as a FREE download. Just that it's still missing stuff and there is a published FAQ and errata for it. Include all that stuff in Ogre 7th(?) ed. and then it could easily be the complete and definitive canon Ogre work.

Until that happens I will still have dog eared rulebooks with sticky notes, margin notes, and loose papers. My current rules are a mix match of what will now be ODE, OM, pocket rules, Forum prints, and rules that came with the minis. Heaven forbid I start tossing in non-canon or house rules.

I do like ODE 6th ed and I'm doing my lower back extension exercises and squats in anticipation of purchasing the boxed ODE, either the current version before it triples in price or the next printing.. if that happens in the near future.

Back to the point, as far as my media example I think you know what I was driving at. A console game that you buy as a boxed DVD vs a d/l, same for software programs and movies bought at a physical store vs downloading it at home... straight digital version -vs- the physical media disk. All I'm saying is that most people have some form of PDD (iPad, Chromebook, etc) that allows you to easily do away with the printed rules in lieu of digital media. It's less expensive and instantly gratifying since I don't have to go to a LHS or wait for the mail.. I just download it in seconds, if I want a printed version I spend the $1.25 on paper and ink on my own printer OR go to any number of print shops to print glossy paper on a high quality laser or thermal transfer printer.

Originally Posted by Mack_JB

Last year I got my 18 year old son into Ogre by buying the Pocket Edition. Then decided he needed all the other stuff to go with it. I managed to get him Ogre/G.E.V. (1990), Shockwave, Reinforcements, and Battlefields over about four months, all for less than $50. Keep your eyes open, and the eBay gougers can't take advantage of you.

The stuff is out there reasonably priced, you just have to search for it.

I'm good, I bought mine YEARS ago when it was priced as marked at a LHS. What I'm advocating is a digital version of them that goes for the original price on WH23. I doubt SJG will ever release GEV, Shockwave, Battlefields, and the Reinforcement pack in a paper version (it took a while for them to release the original Ogre pocket game again and I'm fairly sure it's is a limited run) but I can dream. The gems in those pocket games are the maps, scenarios, counters and extra rules you can't find anywhere else.

Congrats on the find and for bringing a new fan on-board. :)

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

Yeah, it's out there, but can be problematic to find. Patience is a virtue...

Why should we have patience when you could have it now, straight from the manufacturer for non-inflated prices? I'd rather give the money to Stevie than some eBay hack.

[poi]

A GEV pocket version is in progress iirc.

[wolf90]

Originally Posted by poi

A GEV pocket version is in progress iirc.

I believe the reality of this is that a GEV pocket version is under consideration. But in no way should that be interpreted that they intend to produce it. Lot's of variables in that equation, and SJGs didn't become as successful as they did without accounting for all of them.

Phil will let us know when there's something to know.

D.

(But we can hope…!)

[Mack_JB]

Originally Posted by alsteel

Release the original pocket games (Ogre, GEV, Shockwave, Battlefields) in a digital format that is downloadable via WH23. ... SNIP ... Also, offer counter sets and full color maps for purchase for those that can't print their own.

But this statement alone says to do both, print and digital; which is hardly likely, since digital pretty much exits already, and it took decades to go from 5E to ODE (6E) -- so any "7E" is way off now.

Other than the minis, we're actually in a golden age of Ogre.