Scenario Contest #7- Two Nations, One War

[sgbeal]

Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman

I'm assuming the following paragraph from the scenario was written the way it is because this exercise is intended to be a "theoretical war-game" much like...
wait for it...a game of Chess...which uses BLACK and WHITE pieces to represent the two opposing sides.
...
Please let us not sink any further as a society into the debilitating mire of Political Correctness. That way lies madness...

Regardless of the _intent_, the current wording _will_ alienate and/or annoy some portion of potential players. It's in poor taste, in particular given (A) today's overly-PC environment and (B) how _easy_ it would be to reword and avoid offending.

To be clear: i am NOT offended by "black" vs "white" in this context, but why take the greater-than-zero risk of offending when there are other, just as viable solutions for which there is a nearer-zero risk?

[gev]

Originally Posted by sgbeal

Regardless of the _intent_, the current wording _will_ alienate and/or annoy some portion of potential players. It's in poor taste, in particular given (A) today's overly-PC environment and (B) how _easy_ it would be to reword and avoid offending.

While I like to be all-inclusive, I will not tolerate intolerance.
If someone is going to get that tweaked over black versus white, they will not be playing at my table.
I believe that today's overly-PC environment is a result of too many people playing along with overly-PC garbage.
Fight the (PC) Power.

[sgbeal]

Originally Posted by gev

While I like to be all-inclusive, I will not tolerate intolerance.
If someone is going to get that tweaked over black versus white, they will not be playing at my table.
I believe that today's overly-PC environment is a result of too many people playing along with overly-PC garbage.
Fight the (PC) Power.

It's not my call, it's not your call, it's SJ's call. i do, however, highly recommend (when it comes to such wording) erring on the side of PC. That's my $0.02 (that being the purpose of this thread).

[wolf90]

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."

Mark Twain

[ianargent]

Someone's working off one of the older sets where the counters were black and white. One side had black printing on white background (white) and one was white printing on black background (black).

This doesn't much make sense for the ODE counters. I would tag them Blue Force and Red Force, myself, which both matches the current counter colors and military practice, where the "aggressor" force is traditionally Red, and the "training" force is traditionally Blue.

[offsides]

ODE is red and blue, but Pocket Ogre is still black and white. Granted this is a GEV map scenario, but if we can make Pocket GEV happen it'll work there too. I understand the whole PC concerns, but then again we're talking about a game based on the concept of tactical nuclear war on an essentially global scale, so maybe it's not worth worrying about...

[GranitePenguin]

Not to beat a dead horse, but the wording in the scenario itself has the answer to the PC question:

The White Nation, the island in the northwest corner, uses Paneuropean units and tactics.
The Black Nation, the island in the southeast corner, uses Combine units and tactics.

Since White = PE and Black = Combine, why not simply call them PE and Combine?

On a more relevant note, does anyone have any more comments on the scenario's gameplay, instead of worrying about what the units are called? We should really get back on track. :-(

[Jen]

I'm tempted to change the names to some that would be familiar to folks who've gone through JRTC or various other Warfighter exercises, just because it would amuse me, but I'll take the feedback into consideration no matter what. Atlantica and Cortina, anyone? Seriously though, thanks for the discussion.

Jen

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

On a more relevant note, does anyone have any more comments on the scenario's gameplay, instead of worrying about what the units are called? We should really get back on track. :-(

Long ago Blue had better counters for defense and Red for offense. Now we've got so many counters that it doesn't really matter in anything short of a massive game.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by bactram1

"Reinforcements can be redeemed before the start of the movement phase, or saved until later in the game. It's permissible to save up 10 armor units, for example, and then redeem and place them all at the beginning of a turn."

The second sentence implies that you may save a maximum of 10 armor units. Later you mention trading in for an Ogre at 12 armor units. Please add a statement along the lines of "there is no upper limit to the number of armor units you have saved for reinforcements."

It actually doesn't imply a limit; it says "for example." It could, perhaps, be rewritten to make that more obvious, but I don't think it's necessary. What is a bit misleading is saying "Reinforcements can be redeemed before the start of the movement phase, or saved until later in the game." Reinforcements are always redeemed before the start of the movement phase, if they are redeemed. This concept is also discussed a bit redundantly with regards to buying another Ogre. I wonder if we can cover all of these issues at the same time?

How about changing:

Reinforcements can be redeemed before the start of the movement phase, or saved until later in the game. It's permissible to save up 10 armor units, for example, and then redeem and place them all at the beginning of a turn.

Reinforcements can be placed in any town hex that the player controls. Stacking limits must be observed. They can move and fire normally as soon as they are placed. The available units and armor unit costs are outlined in 3.01.

A player also has an option to "save up" his reinforcements, and to purchase another cybertank. Once 12 reinforcements are saved, the player may purchase another Fencer (White Nation) or Ogre Mark III-B (Black Nation). The reinforcements do not have to be all saved at once. The reinforcements do not have to be all saved at once - a player could save 1 armor unit for 12 turns, for example, and then acquire an Ogre on the 13th turn.

To:

Reinforcements are redeemed before the start of the 1st movement phase, but players are not required to redeem armor units on any given turn. Reinforcements may be saved and traded in during a later turn, up to the total currently saved. For example, if a player has 10 reinforcements saved, he may trade in any number of reinforcements between 0-10 units.

Players may also use reinforcements to trade for another Fencer (Paneuropean) or Ogre Mark III-B (Combine) at a cost of 12 reinforcements per Ogre. For example, a player could save 1 armor unit for 12 turns, and then acquire an Ogre by trading in 12 units on the 13th turn.

Reinforcements can be placed in any town hex that the player controls. Stacking limits must be observed. They can move and fire normally as soon as they are placed. The available units and armor unit costs are outlined in 3.01.

Originally Posted by Jen

I'm tempted to change the names to some that would be familiar to folks who've gone through JRTC or various other Warfighter exercises, just because it would amuse me, but I'll take the feedback into consideration no matter what. Atlantica and Cortina, anyone?

Not sure that would be the best option. Those that do not have any JRTC background would find the naming arbitrary and confusing (e.g., How come I don't have any Cortina units in the box?).

As I was playtesting this tonight, I was using my old G.E.V. / Shockwave maps instead of my ODE set, and it dawned on me why the wording is the way it is. This scenario has been around for AGES (I'll leave the research up to the class) and the Black and White simply refers to the actual color of the old pieces. It's nothing subversive, politically charged, or anything else; the pieces used to be Black and White when it was originally written. So, I'll reiterate that Black and White should just be updated to match ODE versions of the pieces (Combine and PE, respectively).

Now a couple gameplay questions:

1. Are you allowed to use specialized INF (marines, etc)? If not, it should probably be explicit. If yes, is there a cost associated with it? I think the intent is for generic INF only.
2. Do INF need to be dismounted in order to control a town hex? This has a subtle impact on INF movement strategies. Personally, I find requiring the INF to actually occupy the town (i.e., be dismounted) better. This should be explicitly defined.

Other than that, the scenario plays out very well. There are a lot of layers in this one; from the setup to execution that make it interesting. The different Ogre types really make you scratch your head, too. One is a long-range sniper and the other is better for close-up fighting. You'd think 20 missiles would be an easy win, but it really isn't. You still have to work for it.